Apparently the ENNies of 2022 have decided that Thirsty Sword Lesbians is Game of the Year and just even more proof of wokeness trying to force itself into our roleplaying culture and industry. It's a game my FLGS can't even sell copies of with 50% off stickers on the books.
You're Late (https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/ennies/). That's the thread on this topic.
Quote from: RebelSky on August 15, 2022, 03:50:38 PM
Apparently the ENNies of 2022 have decided that Thirsty Sword Lesbians is Game of the Year and just even more proof of wokeness trying to force itself into our roleplaying culture and industry. It's a game my FLGS can't even sell copies of with 50% off stickers on the books.
They might sell more to the average gamer if it came wrapped in a concealing bag with only the title showing and an "explicit materials" warning stuck on. That would probably pull in some typical young male gamers...at least until they opened the plastic.
[deleted]
Called it.
I knew the Ennies would be joke again for I've lost track of how many years now.
Alternate title:
"The ENnies Jump the Baresharktopussy"
What was the competition?
Ie, if you were awarding 'game of the year' according to the established criteria, who would you award it to? Does anyone know the criteria? I believe it has to be published within the last year, right?
Theres been some WOTC books out in the last year that were better than this trash.
But is that something that can even win? D&D 5th edition has been out for a long time.
The nominnes were:
Colostle: A Solo RPG Adventure
Root: The RPG
The Troubleshooters
Thirsty Sword Lesbians
Wise Women
There are criteria (https://ennie-awards.com/awards-process-and-faq/#toggle-id-8) for what products are eligible to win including publication date and submitting product to the judges.
I'm not familiar with any of the other games on the list. Which ones are better than Thirst Sword Lesbians? Why?
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 10:22:23 AM
But is that something that can even win? D&D 5th edition has been out for a long time.
The nominnes were:
Colostle: A Solo RPG Adventure
Root: The RPG
The Troubleshooters
Thirsty Sword Lesbians
Wise Women
There are criteria (https://ennie-awards.com/awards-process-and-faq/#toggle-id-8) for what products are eligible to win including publication date and submitting product to the judges.
I'm not familiar with any of the other games on the list. Which ones are better than Thirst Sword Lesbians? Why?
The only one I'm familiar with is The Troubleshooters. I picked it up on an impulse buy, and after a two-hour flip through, I sat it down and realized I was unlikely to ever look at it again. Now I have to decode if it would make a good Christmas gift for one of my buddies that collects damn near everything rpg-related and has a weird fascination for anything of modern European origin (especially British comedy).
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 17, 2022, 10:50:27 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 10:22:23 AM
But is that something that can even win? D&D 5th edition has been out for a long time.
The nominnes were:
Colostle: A Solo RPG Adventure
Root: The RPG
The Troubleshooters
Thirsty Sword Lesbians
Wise Women
There are criteria (https://ennie-awards.com/awards-process-and-faq/#toggle-id-8) for what products are eligible to win including publication date and submitting product to the judges.
I'm not familiar with any of the other games on the list. Which ones are better than Thirst Sword Lesbians? Why?
The only one I'm familiar with is The Troubleshooters. I picked it up on an impulse buy, and after a two-hour flip through, I sat it down and realized I was unlikely to ever look at it again. Now I have to decode if it would make a good Christmas gift for one of my buddies that collects damn near everything rpg-related and has a weird fascination for anything of modern European origin (especially British comedy).
Troubleshooters was quite good I thought. Elegant mechanics and nice art and layout. But I got it more out of curiosity and nostalgia I remember Tin Tin as a kid. It's good if you like that genre.I can't see myself ever playing it though.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 10:22:23 AM
But is that something that can even win? D&D 5th edition has been out for a long time.
The nominnes were:
Colostle: A Solo RPG Adventure
Root: The RPG
The Troubleshooters
Thirsty Sword Lesbians
Wise Women
There are criteria (https://ennie-awards.com/awards-process-and-faq/#toggle-id-8) for what products are eligible to win including publication date and submitting product to the judges.
I'm not familiar with any of the other games on the list. Which ones are better than Thirst Sword Lesbians? Why?
It depends.
Is it pure enough to be submited by the aparatchikcs?
Is it pure enough to pass the purity test of the aparatchicks of the politburo?
Root is not a bad little game either. Colostle, if it is the same one heard of before, have not yet had a chance to glance at. I am very critical of solo RPGs as to many make that claim but are really just storytelling games with maybe some dice in there somewhere and maybe a system.
I had fun playing Colostle, but you're right in that it is a light RPG and by its very nature tends towards storytelling. This is not a bad thing. It's just not everyone's cup of tea. It has a quirky setting and you get to do a fair amount of world building as part of game play. It is definitely not a tactical/crunchy game. :)
WHY DO WE NOW HAVE TWO IDENTICAL THREADS ON THIS?
Quote from: Mistwell on August 17, 2022, 12:05:12 PM
WHY DO WE NOW HAVE TWO IDENTICAL THREADS ON THIS?
Because it drives people like you crazy? (grin) Nah, it is probably just folks posting without doing a search through older posts. Human nature and all that jazz. I don't think any malice is intended. As always, you don't have to read either one of the threads. :)
;)
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 11:17:43 AM
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 10:22:23 AM
I'm not familiar with any of the other games on the list. Which ones are better than Thirst Sword Lesbians? Why?
It depends.
Is it pure enough to be submited by the aparatchikcs?
Is it pure enough to pass the purity test of the aparatchicks of the politburo?
Spot on!
But would an award ceremony hosted by this site be much different? Anything with identity politics would be instantly disqualified, even if the game featured solid mechanics and an otherwise interesting premise. That's the truth of all these regimented award shows: they are all biased. Even if you ran a free-form, Fan-voted survey with a substantially large sample size (including both Woke and non-woke participants), the results are still a matter of subjectivity. It's the reason this site has threads debating the merits of BX DnD v. OSE, or WotC 3.0 v. 3.5.
Bottom line: Awards mean shit! What's important is what does the game contain, and will YOU find it enjoyable.
Just a little taste of what Thirsty Sword Lesbians has to offer... there's an entire section on how characters are supposed to be so lustful, that if they encounter a HAWT lesbo villian, they have internal struggle over whether to fight them or fuck them.
Basically, it's filth appealing to the degenerates in society. That's my subjective opinion.
I don't think anyone here needs an explanation that playing a character doesn't mean that represents you and/or your secret desires in real life. I mean, it COULD. Some people are pretty sleazy and that sleaze creeps out in all of their characters. But if you play a game that is awful knowing that it is awful and enjoying it because it is awful, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. One of the early computer games was 'bouncing babies' and while you are nominally saving lives, there's a lot of babies that splat on the sidewalk.
Exploding Kittens is a similar premise, right? If kittens were ACTUALLY EXPLODING it'd be very different.
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 01:59:18 PM
I don't think anyone here needs an explanation that playing a character doesn't mean that represents you and/or your secret desires in real life. I mean, it COULD. Some people are pretty sleazy and that sleaze creeps out in all of their characters. But if you play a game that is awful knowing that it is awful and enjoying it because it is awful, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. One of the early computer games was 'bouncing babies' and while you are nominally saving lives, there's a lot of babies that splat on the sidewalk.
Exploding Kittens is a similar premise, right? If kittens were ACTUALLY EXPLODING it'd be very different.
Yet at the same time, you think a disclaimer about "being respectful" is warranted. I'm curious if TSL has a similar disclaimer about not grabbing pussies at the table, or dressing up in "insensitive" ways, like wearing a mullet wig and flannel shirts. Oh wait! Some of the artwork literally has butch women with mullets and work boots. OMG!! WHAT ARE THE RULES?!
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 02:35:13 PM
Yet at the same time, you think a disclaimer about "being respectful" is warranted. I'm curious if TSL has a similar disclaimer about not grabbing pussies at the table, or dressing up in "insensitive" ways, like wearing a mullet wig and flannel shirts. Oh wait! Some of the artwork literally has butch women with mullets and work boots. OMG!! WHAT ARE THE RULES?!
Anyone who actually wants to play TSL and can get past the Evil Hat
creed loyalty oath disclaimer on p. 11 is by definition one of the Anointed or 'gods' and thus free to do whatever they like. Insensitivity is only possible for insufficiently catechized lay worshippers or blaspheming Deplorables. ;)
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 01:41:52 PM
Just a little taste of what Thirsty Sword Lesbians has to offer... there's an entire section on how characters are supposed to be so lustful, that if they encounter a HAWT lesbo villian, they have internal struggle over whether to fight them or fuck them.
Basically, it's filth appealing to the degenerates in society. That's my subjective opinion.
soooooo. FATAL got a new edition and finally won an award? 8)
Quote from: Omega on August 17, 2022, 07:54:14 PM
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 01:41:52 PM
Just a little taste of what Thirsty Sword Lesbians has to offer... there's an entire section on how characters are supposed to be so lustful, that if they encounter a HAWT lesbo villian, they have internal struggle over whether to fight them or fuck them.
Basically, it's filth appealing to the degenerates in society. That's my subjective opinion.
soooooo. FATAL got a new edition and finally won an award? 8)
Yes!
Quote from: deadDMwalking on August 17, 2022, 01:59:18 PM
I don't think anyone here needs an explanation that playing a character doesn't mean that represents you and/or your secret desires in real life. I mean, it COULD. Some people are pretty sleazy and that sleaze creeps out in all of their characters. But if you play a game that is awful knowing that it is awful and enjoying it because it is awful, that doesn't mean you're a bad person. One of the early computer games was 'bouncing babies' and while you are nominally saving lives, there's a lot of babies that splat on the sidewalk.
Exploding Kittens is a similar premise, right? If kittens were ACTUALLY EXPLODING it'd be very different.
Since I can't play a "Native American" because I don't belong to the tribes (even if I'm more native american than the author of C&C {1/4 Maya}) I guessed I couldn't play a lesbian because I'm not one.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 08:08:12 PM
Since I can't play a "Native American" because I don't belong to the tribes (even if I'm more native american than the author of C&C {1/4 Maya}) I guessed I couldn't play a lesbian because I'm not one.
No need. The book makes it clear that trans-woman ARE woman, so you can still play as a dude that is into chicks.
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 08:08:12 PM
Since I can't play a "Native American" because I don't belong to the tribes (even if I'm more native american than the author of C&C {1/4 Maya}) I guessed I couldn't play a lesbian because I'm not one.
No need. The book makes it clear that trans-woman ARE woman, so you can still play as a dude that is into chicks.
I'm not a translesbian either, I like to pretend I am an Attack Helicopter tho.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 09:15:25 PM
I'm not a translesbian either, I like to pretend I am an Attack Helicopter tho.
Hahaha! 1/4-Maya go BRRRRR !!
;D
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
But would an award ceremony hosted by this site be much different? Anything with identity politics would be instantly disqualified, even if the game featured solid mechanics and an otherwise interesting premise.
Find me a game with identity politics, solid mechanics, in an otherwise interesting premise – and I'd be willing to take a look at it. In fact, I'd settle for identity politics and an otherwise interesting premise.
But somehow those two things never travel in the same cart. Asking for solid mechanics on top of that is just gilding the lily.
(For example,
Lancer is a fantastic game with political assumptions I don't even vaguely share – but it's still a fantastic game with both interesting mechanics and an interesting premise. Sadly it was a 2020 release. But that's the closest thing I can think of.)
Quote from: SquidLord on August 18, 2022, 02:13:58 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 01:31:10 PM
But would an award ceremony hosted by this site be much different? Anything with identity politics would be instantly disqualified, even if the game featured solid mechanics and an otherwise interesting premise.
Find me a game with identity politics, solid mechanics, in an otherwise interesting premise – and I'd be willing to take a look at it. In fact, I'd settle for identity politics and an otherwise interesting premise.
But somehow those two things never travel in the same cart. Asking for solid mechanics on top of that is just gilding the lily.
(For example, Lancer is a fantastic game with political assumptions I don't even vaguely share – but it's still a fantastic game with both interesting mechanics and an interesting premise. Sadly it was a 2020 release. But that's the closest thing I can think of.)
Would Eclipse Phase qualify?
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 18, 2022, 03:07:45 AM
Would Eclipse Phase qualify?
I think it would for meaning, with the caveat that mechanical system is complete garbage. Still, as an interesting game system coupled with some interesting ideas in the setting, I think it could fairly be considered in the running for the right year.
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 08:08:12 PM
Since I can't play a "Native American" because I don't belong to the tribes (even if I'm more native american than the author of C&C {1/4 Maya}) I guessed I couldn't play a lesbian because I'm not one.
No need. The book makes it clear that trans-woman ARE woman, so you can still play as a dude that is into chicks.
GenCon room assignment staff must feel so justified by that......
Quote from: jeff37923 on August 18, 2022, 06:15:46 AM
Quote from: Effete on August 17, 2022, 09:00:54 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 17, 2022, 08:08:12 PM
Since I can't play a "Native American" because I don't belong to the tribes (even if I'm more native american than the author of C&C {1/4 Maya}) I guessed I couldn't play a lesbian because I'm not one.
No need. The book makes it clear that trans-woman ARE woman, so you can still play as a dude that is into chicks.
GenCon room assignment staff must feel so justified by that......
But isn't that exactly what happened?? :o
Quote from: SquidLord on August 18, 2022, 02:13:58 AM
Find me a game with identity politics, solid mechanics, in an otherwise interesting premise – and I'd be willing to take a look at it. In fact, I'd settle for identity politics and an otherwise interesting premise.
Perhaps Shock will check that box.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock:_Social_Science_Fiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock:_Social_Science_Fiction)
Quote from: zircher on August 18, 2022, 12:05:26 PM
Perhaps Shock will check that box.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock:_Social_Science_Fiction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock:_Social_Science_Fiction)
I'm not sure it does, actually! I've had a copy of Shock since it was released, lo these many years, and while the author is a bit SJW-ish, the game itself doesn't focus around identity politics. It does deliberately focus on social issues, that part is true – but it doesn't specify how they should shake out.
Admittedly it's been a few years since I've read it, but as I recall you could definitely come to some unexpected/non-politically correct conclusions as a result of play.
Overall, a pretty good game, I'd say.
I don't have anything against the game itself--to each his own and it's not anything I'd spend money on--however, as a Free League fan I am royally disappointed that they didn't get more nominations and wins in a year full of outstanding releases.
Seriously, I mean Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least). All their products have really great writing and production values. Then, over at Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
How crazy is that...?
I'm reading The Troubleshooters at the moment and I'm surprised that it even got an Ennie nomination. :o
I suspect it is a viable (possibly even great) game in actual play, but...
It covers something very niche from an US perspective. Pulp adventure in the style of Franco-Belgian comics books. In an alternate universe a lot like our own during the 2nd half of the 1960's, first half of the 1970's.
An alternate universe in which the US is crushed completely in the space race, not by the Soviets, but by a Franco-Japanese partnership landing on the moon in 1964 in basically this:
https://media.s-bol.com/ojGXDxpgM5VK/892x1200.jpg
Quote from: BytomMan on August 22, 2022, 11:59:19 PM
I don't have anything against the game itself--to each his own and it's not anything I'd spend money on--however, as a Free League fan I am royally disappointed that they didn't get more nominations and wins in a year full of outstanding releases.
Seriously, I mean Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least). All their products have really great writing and production values. Then, over at Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
How crazy is that...?
But were they *good*? The only one I own is Ruins of Symbaroum, and I was so unimpressed I've never finished reading either the rules or the adventure.
Now, most of what's being complained about here doesn't strike me as good games, either - but I don't think we can say "fans paid lots of money for this, mostly sight unseen, therefore it must be worthy!"
Quote from: Naburimannu on August 30, 2022, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: BytomMan on August 22, 2022, 11:59:19 PM
I don't have anything against the game itself--to each his own and it's not anything I'd spend money on--however, as a Free League fan I am royally disappointed that they didn't get more nominations and wins in a year full of outstanding releases.
Seriously, I mean Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least). All their products have really great writing and production values. Then, over at Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
How crazy is that...?
But were they *good*? The only one I own is Ruins of Symbaroum, and I was so unimpressed I've never finished reading either the rules or the adventure.
...
^Naburimannu knows.^
1st:
Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least)And who is playing these? Where is the player base? How big of a network effect are they building for each line?
That's 4 big kickstarters of time and effort that could have been put into promoting, and creating support for a popular game line that FL already has out.
Oh, wait, that's right...
FL is kinda the one hit wonder studio. Lots of "cool" games, but only Symbaroum has the number of supplements that anyone would actually call a supported RPG line.
Maybe Drakar och Demoner will move them out of their new game rinse and repeat cycle. If it takes.
2nd:
Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.Is
anyone regularly playing any of these?
It's virtually all IP Lore driven nostalgiaberry book sales. Their whole Conan RPG line is based around that...
I've gotten very cynical about cool RPG maker
X's new hotness RPG when you look and see how many different RPG's they put out yet how few have more than one or two supplements.
Quote from: Jaeger on August 31, 2022, 01:11:12 AM
Quote from: Naburimannu on August 30, 2022, 04:22:22 PM
Quote from: BytomMan on August 22, 2022, 11:59:19 PM
I don't have anything against the game itself--to each his own and it's not anything I'd spend money on--however, as a Free League fan I am royally disappointed that they didn't get more nominations and wins in a year full of outstanding releases.
Seriously, I mean Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least). All their products have really great writing and production values. Then, over at Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
How crazy is that...?
But were they *good*? The only one I own is Ruins of Symbaroum, and I was so unimpressed I've never finished reading either the rules or the adventure.
...
^Naburimannu knows.^
1st: Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least)
And who is playing these? Where is the player base? How big of a network effect are they building for each line?
That's 4 big kickstarters of time and effort that could have been put into promoting, and creating support for a popular game line that FL already has out.
Oh, wait, that's right...
FL is kinda the one hit wonder studio. Lots of "cool" games, but only Symbaroum has the number of supplements that anyone would actually call a supported RPG line.
Maybe Drakar och Demoner will move them out of their new game rinse and repeat cycle. If it takes.
2nd: Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
Is anyone regularly playing any of these?
It's virtually all IP Lore driven nostalgiaberry book sales. Their whole Conan RPG line is based around that...
I've gotten very cynical about cool RPG maker X's new hotness RPG when you look and see how many different RPG's they put out yet how few have more than one or two supplements.
Greetings!
*Brutal* Jaeger! *Laughing*
True analysis though, that is spot on. All thee flashy, sexy games--with few or no supplements--are raved about by some online--and yet, the deep, harsh reality is that most of these "games"--are glorified coffee-table books and bookcase decorations.
No one is playing them. Probably a few somewhere, but you get the point. It does make me wonder, if these games are so brilliant, so deep, so innovative--why aren't more people playing them?
Of all these new games--vaunted and celebrated as they are--the only game I have heard--from online, but from *gamers*--not just talking heads or critics--is Mork Borg. I think I have heard a few gamers talk about Mork Borg at my local game store, too. That's it though.
The Ennies are merely a circle jerking get together.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Jaeger on August 31, 2022, 01:11:12 AM
^Naburimannu knows.^
1st: Twilight: 2000 made over $500K on Kickstarter and The One Ring pulled in about $1.5M (not to mention other supplements for Vaesen, Forbidden Lands and Ruins of Symbaroum all did over $300K at least)
And who is playing these? Where is the player base? How big of a network effect are they building for each line?
That's 4 big kickstarters of time and effort that could have been put into promoting, and creating support for a popular game line that FL already has out.
Oh, wait, that's right...
FL is kinda the one hit wonder studio. Lots of "cool" games, but only Symbaroum has the number of supplements that anyone would actually call a supported RPG line.
Maybe Drakar och Demoner will move them out of their new game rinse and repeat cycle. If it takes.
2nd: Modiphius you had lots of great books for lines like Dune, Fallout, Star Trek Adventures and Conan.
Is anyone regularly playing any of these?
It's virtually all IP Lore driven nostalgiaberry book sales. Their whole Conan RPG line is based around that...
I've gotten very cynical about cool RPG maker X's new hotness RPG when you look and see how many different RPG's they put out yet how few have more than one or two supplements.
How regularly does a game need to be played? My main gaming group tends to switch games every 6 months or so. I just finished playing in a Twilight 2000 campaign. I'm getting ready to run my 3rd Conan one. I know of a The One Ring campaign going on in my area.
People are playing these. I've found plenty online willing to talk about the games, help out, give advice, compare notes, etc. How big of a player base does a game need to be considered "active"? Because past D&D and Pathfinder, once you drop under the B tier of things, like Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 20whatever edition, Warhammer and a handful of others, most games have a player base that might as well be "nothing".
As for not supporting their games, do we need to have the nerd argument again about the supplement treadmill? How many and how often does a game need to put out more material. Is it possible to be a one-and-done book? A lot of indie games never get a 2nd book and people play them just fine.
Free League does back up their stuff but maybe it's just not to your level of satisfaction? Looking over my shelf (and adding in a few pdfs) I see:
Alien: 1 box set campaign, 1 expansion book
Coriolis: 1 campaign book, 6 supplements (setting, tech, adventures)
Forbidden Lands: 2 setting expansions, 2 adventure books, 1 campaign book and a bestiary about to get printed
Mutant Year Zero: 3 expansion books (each a complete game of their own), 5 adventures, 2 mini setting encounters, 1 campaign book
Tales From the Loop: 1 expansion book and 2 books of adventures
Vaesen: 1 setting expansion, 2 books of adventures, 1 adventure
Quote from: SHARK on August 31, 2022, 05:04:42 AM
...
Of all these new games--vaunted and celebrated as they are--the only game I have heard--from online, but from *gamers*--not just talking heads or critics--is Mork Borg. I think I have heard a few gamers talk about Mork Borg at my local game store, too. That's it though.
...
Don't get me started on Mork half-a-game Borg. I actually got it before its creators let their mask slip. It is an incomplete game that embraces misery tourism. "Metal" my ass...
I should have paid attention to actual reviews. Totally on me.
Quote from: rgalex on August 31, 2022, 08:03:05 AM
...
How regularly does a game need to be played? My main gaming group tends to switch games every 6 months or so. I just finished playing in a Twilight 2000 campaign. I'm getting ready to run my 3rd Conan one. I know of a The One Ring campaign going on in my area.
Groups like that are very much an exception. My group switches games at the end of every campaign as well. We are an exception.
This exceptional effect can vary depending on the local RPG scene.
Most other groups circulate through the 2-3 games their GM is comfortable with. They are outliers too.
The rest of the hobby only runs some flavor of D&D. That is the norm.
That is the hobby.
Quote from: rgalex on August 31, 2022, 08:03:05 AM
People are playing these. I've found plenty online willing to talk about the games, help out, give advice, compare notes, etc. How big of a player base does a game need to be considered "active"? Because past D&D and Pathfinder, once you drop under the B tier of things, like Shadowrun, Cyberpunk 20whatever edition, Warhammer and a handful of others, most games have a player base that might as well be "nothing".
More RPG companies should aspire to be "B" Tier.
Every older "B" tier company game line: Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Vampire/WoD, are all
very vulnerable to being displaced due to long term mismanagement.
Their niche genres should be under ruthless attack.
Quote from: rgalex on August 31, 2022, 08:03:05 AM
As for not supporting their games, do we need to have the nerd argument again about the supplement treadmill? How many and how often does a game need to put out more material. Is it possible to be a one-and-done book? A lot of indie games never get a 2nd book and people play them just fine.
Absolutely true. Nothing wrong with playing one and done games.
But it also fits right in with my "one hit wonder" description of certain games.
I Love The Riddle of Steel. It is the RPG that got me back into RPG's in college. It is an obscure RPG that will probably never get a needed second edition that fixes sorcery because of zero follow up outside of two supplements.
One quasi-hit kinda wonder of a game.
I Love it. But nobody plays it anymore.
That's the reality.
Yes, I could get my group to play it. Won't change the fact that nobody plays it anymore.
Quote from: rgalex on August 31, 2022, 08:03:05 AM
Free League does back up their stuff but maybe it's just not to your level of satisfaction? Looking over my shelf (and adding in a few pdfs) I see:
It has
Nothing to do with
my "satisfaction". Reality doesn't care.
People like to play "supported" systems. Ones that are not "supported" tend to fall by the wayside. It is what it is.
That is the reality of our hobby.
"Looking over my shelf" is right. We all own far more games than are actually played:
Alien: 1 box set campaign, 1 expansion book Less than 2-3 supplements - A new game - but also IP dependent. Not one of the three evergreen licensed RPG IP; destined for one hit wonder status.
Coriolis: 1 campaign book, 6 supplements (setting, tech, adventures)Out since 2017 - 5 years and that's it.
Forbidden Lands: 2 setting expansions, 2 adventure books, 1 campaign book and a bestiary about to get printedOut since 2019 - 3 years, and they're only now doing the Bestiary?
Mutant Year Zero: 3 expansion books (each a complete game of their own), 5 adventures, 2 mini setting encounters, 1 campaign book - Out since 2015 - 7 years and that's it.
Tales From the Loop: 1 expansion book and 2 books of adventuresOut since 2017 - 5 years and that's it.
Vaesen: 1 setting expansion, 2 books of adventures, 1 adventureOut since 2020 - 2 years and that's it.
The majority on this list is dribbling along at 1.
x ish or so supplements a year. Boutique games.
Nothing wrong with playing Boutique games - but it goes to show that big Kickstarter $$$ are not an indication of how many people actually play a game.
That is the reality of my questions: Who is playing these? Where is the player base? How big of a network effect are they building for each line? And: 4 big kickstarters of time and effort that could have been put into promoting, and creating support for a popular game line that FL already has out.
A game lives and dies on the network effect that is created for it.
To lift a game into "B" Tier status you need to put out 3-4 supplements per year to hold peoples attention. So that you can begin to grow the player base, and creating a network effect that people will take notice of, and want to be a part of.
So FL can generate big KS numbers. More power to them. Also: So what?
Quote from: Jaeger on August 31, 2022, 02:12:32 PM
So FL can generate big KS numbers. More power to them. Also: So what?
Except in other threads that DeadManWoking's been participating in. We've explained over and over that the numbers are meaningless if you end up spending it all on production. He's jumped the shark into straightup willfull ignorance.
Quote from: Jaeger on August 31, 2022, 02:12:32 PM
[...edit...]
That is the reality of my questions: Who is playing these? Where is the player base? How big of a network effect are they building for each line? And: 4 big kickstarters of time and effort that could have been put into promoting, and creating support for a popular game line that FL already has out.
A game lives and dies on the network effect that is created for it.
To lift a game into "B" Tier status you need to put out 3-4 supplements per year to hold peoples attention. So that you can begin to grow the player base, and creating a network effect that people will take notice of, and want to be a part of.
So FL can generate big KS numbers. More power to them. Also: So what?
You raise a good point, and one I had overlooked. Fria Ligan produces some very high-quality products--beautiful art, excellent layout, quality components, well-presented books...and since I have a bit of a weakness for all things Nordic, I've given them a pass with regards to development. But considering that some of their most important game lines were not originated in-house (TftL depends on the art of Simon Stålenhag, Mutant Year Zero was an older game from the 80s, along with one or two others...), maybe they are lacking in real creatives (despite the excellent graphic design and art).
Not every game needs to be D&D to be successful, and many games are now and will always be niche--but those are some of my personal favourites. Niche is not a failure--it is a success. But is Fria Ligan merely riding coattails of earlier creatives as they churn out beautiful boxes? How can they really develop community, and will they? And one question is, what are these like in Sverige?
Good questions, all of you.