Quote from: SosthenesHmm, does the "Goonies" movie count as survival horror?

Only if Corey doesn't get his horse...

I think tossing something like a trust mechanic into RC D&D is something like putting a rock crusher 4-speed into a Razor scooter.  It might be a fine piece of machinery, but the scooter goes just fine without it.

A simpler incentive to player attachment might be to run some games before the big Crawl of Doom.  That gives each player a sense of his PC's stake in the world and the interpersonal relationships within the party itself.  That also gives you a chance to beef up the PCs for the big set piece dungeon.

No new rules, just plain ol' 1970's character investment.

Quote from: BalbinusSo, if I wanted to run a dungeon in this vein, as survival horror, how would you recommend making it credible and fun to the kind of people who wouldn't normally touch a dungeon with a ten foot pole.

Is this going to be a one off adventure ? Because if it is, a dungeon crawl as survival horror would be much easier to pull off.

The way how I see it, there are two possible ways to do this. First, the pcs plan to go into the "dungeon" - an expedition of some sort/ a tour/ some kind of sport - discover that the place is bigger than they originally thought, decide to explore a bit further, get cut off from the outside world...and that's when hell pays them a visit...

The second way, is the where the fuck are we ? way. Here the pcs accidently discover the dungeon and are forced by curcimstance to take shelter in it - perhaps because of the weather/chased by bad guys - discover that the place is bigger than they originally thought, are forced to explore a bit further, get cut of from the outside world ...and that's when hell pays them a visit...

What that hell entails is totally up to you. I'd always go with something that needs them (the pcs) to survive. And by now you know that needs involves pain...lots of it.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: BalbinusDungeons get a bad press, mostly pretty deservedly.

By and large they make little sense and are not particularly atmospheric.

But, that isn't how it has to be.

Let's go back to basics.  What's happening in a dungeon scenario?

Ehh.

Getting back to basics would be admitting that a dungeon doesn't NEED to make sense or NEED a higher purpose to be fun.

Diablo, at this time still the highest reviewed computer game OF ALL TIME of a major, reputable review site (that would be gamespot) is at heart a dungeon crawl, and that's what makes it GREAT.

And yes, dungeons can (and in most cases should) have a spooky atmosphere, but it bugs that OTHER games are more open to the idea of what a cool adventure idea a dungeon is than some D&D players.

Chuck

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalI don't think that's doable in an RPG.  In terms of genre cinema or fiction, what you're talking about would be a kind of character study which is all about exploring the limits of who people are.

  RPGs, even indie ones, are spectacularly bad at that kind of dramatic introspection.  In fact, psychological drama is difficult to do in RPGs because most people struggle to have a firm grip on their characters, are improvising their reactions on the fly and aren't actors and so aren't willing or able to emulate a character that's being put through an emotional mincer.

That, and a lot of players like to kill things and take their stuff.

ESPECIALLY in a dungeon adventure.

Chuck

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckThat, and a lot of players like to kill things and take their stuff.

ESPECIALLY in a dungeon adventure.

  Well quite.

  I really think that if you want to do clever dramatic stuff and explore characters and whatnot go and read a book, watch a play or rent a good DVD.

  RPGs are games built around the idea of killing stuff.  You can, if you want stretch that to doing things like solving intrigues and maybe some politics but it's a game.

  This is why I think all of these Firefly and Battlestar Galactica RPGs are so unuterably ill conceived as they inevitably focus on the least interesting stuff in those programmes.  It's like making an RPG out of the Singing Detective and have it be all about killing nazi spies.

Quote from: jhkimI had been working on a concept for a post-apocalyptic D&D game, called "Dawn of Fire".  (Below is link for some of my ideas.)  

Dawn of Fire

The basic idea is that over a few years, dragons start multiply like mad and take over the surface of the world.  Humanity (along with demi-humans and humanoids) are driven underground.  The campaign would be the PCs and a bunch of what people they can save finding a remote underground system to try to make a safe home for themselves.

Sounds a lot like "Reign of Fire," that Christian Bale flick. Not a criticism, mind you. I cheerfully borrow whatever I want when designing milieus.

Anyone seen "The Descent"?

There are elements of dungeon crawling (natural obstacles, mazing corridors, vicious monsters) and survival horror (limited resources, overwhelming odds, imminent death).

I could definitely see doing a dungeon in this vein: You remember exploring a cave system near your home. A false step plunged you head-first into a pit. You've come to, and you've got your flickering torch and a pick-axe. You're far underground and something, somewhere is crawling in the darkness far beyond the reach of your meager light. What do you do?

Quote from: Mr. AnalyticalThis is why I think all of these Firefly and Battlestar Galactica RPGs are so unuterably ill conceived as they inevitably focus on the least interesting stuff in those programmes.  It's like making an RPG out of the Singing Detective and have it be all about killing nazi spies.

It's a tangent for this thread, but you have pretty much articulated something I've been struggling to pin-down for quite a while. Generally speaking, I hate licensed RPGs, and you've just hit the nail on the head of why.

Ned

Licensed RPGs can be cool... they just need to be designed as GAMES FIRST and not some lame attempt to simulate the TV show they come from.

The Babylon 5 game, for example, with its meager HP basically discouraging combat.

A) There was combat in those shows that PCs survived just fine ALL THE TIME.

B) Even if there wasn't, play up those aspects that would make the best game (iow- more fights with shadow ships and less sitting around talking about your feelings- or worse, the feelings of your fictional character).

Chuck

PS Yes I know, some people LOVE "thematic games" about drama where there's no combat and not a single die is rolled. I don't. You mileage may vary.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckLicensed RPGs can be cool... they just need to be designed as GAMES FIRST and not some lame attempt to simulate the TV show they come from.

No that's why they suck. If they don't emulate the show, why the fuck play that game? B5 is a good example - I couldn't figure out why we didn't just play some generic SF rpg, because that's all B5 was. (But then, I never got into B5 and don't really watch genre TV - the rest of my group had just had finished watching the whole series on DVD, and were totally into. I just felt that they were touristing, and not really playing anything "Oooh, look there's so-and-so! Hey, we're in the sick bay!")

Ned

Quote from: Ned the Lonely DonkeyNo that's why they suck. If they don't emulate the show, why the fuck play that game? B5 is a good example - I couldn't figure out why we didn't just play some generic SF rpg, because that's all B5 was. (But then, I never got into B5 and don't really watch genre TV - the rest of my group had just had finished watching the whole series on DVD, and were totally into. I just felt that they were touristing, and not really playing anything "Oooh, look there's so-and-so! Hey, we're in the sick bay!")

Ned

I dunno... I think it can be done well, I would never run a B5 campaign SET on B5 but there's plenty of other places where PCs could have elbow room in that universe.

I ran a game players loved in the Alien/Predator universe, but I wasn't worrying about selling it, so Im not sure if it would have worked as a licensed game or not.

Chuck

As resident pimp of a licensed game, I have to agree with RPGObjects_chuck.  A licensed game can be fun if that license is one that's suitable to gaming and the company works on producing a good game.  Doing that will mean not only that it's fun to play but accurately represents the source material.  Buffy is excellent at this, it makes the game played feel like an episode of the show.  A bad example would be the proposed return to hit points in the new version of Star Wars d20 to make it "more cinematic".  Yeah, like that time Han Solo got shot six times and just kept running...

I suggest you look for the RQ3 Supplement 'Shadow on the Borderlands', and read the 'Dyskund Caverns' scenario.

Once the PCs, bronze age adventurers with the most basic of climbing skills, get in they rapidly want to get out. In RQ3 fighting three on one is a serious challenge, and there's areas that massively out weight that ratio. It's dark, and the adventurers are relying on resin torches in a wet cavern. What's in there are horrors best left undisturbed.

My players, a well honed crew comfortable with the system and keenly aware of their strengths and limitations, spent the following sessions madly trying to escape. Getting to daylight was a big rush for them.

In RQ3, almost no adventurers have 'darkvision'. You only get your MP (like 'mana') back if your rest, and that wasn't about to happen. Their resources dwindled, the enemy was relentless and struck from the darkness, the torches started to slowly burn out . . .

I'll check that out, thanks for the recommendation.

An RQ dungeon crawl?  Christ... why not have a combat-oriented game set during the battle of the Somme.  We nearly had a total party maiming when two guys came at us with daggers, we've got NO chance against "horrors best left undisturbed"