Quote from: Summon666 on May 14, 2023, 03:04:19 AM

Quote from: Omega on May 14, 2023, 02:17:40 AM

Quote from: Summon666 on May 13, 2023, 08:26:55 PM
Everyone thought the GamesWorkShop network would be a joke... still going strong years latter with more content being added all the time.. https://warhammerplus.com/

Thats because GW cultivated a cult mentality with its players.

yeah that is so unlike DnD. ; )

It is. The only D&D "cult" I've seen is the OSR, who're obsessed with OD&D for reasons that have always eluded me, and only about the system itself, not the "lore" surrounding it, which is what you need to create most of this content. And those people went by the wayside decades ago.

I'm honestly not sure what cult appeal current D&D has. It has completely neglected its settings and the only thing it has released that I know about is a castrated version of Ravenloft and a truncated Spelljammer without ship combat that "fans" immediately lashed on to call "racist", now nobody gives a shit about. They haven't even released the Planescape books they've been taunting people for years with, and I'm sure it'll be crap and no one will give a crap about either. But WH has decades of lore and torrents of overpriced official miniatures for people to gobble up.

Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on May 14, 2023, 08:23:59 AM
I still maintain that watching RPGs is not really a spectator sport. For me at least.

Agreed. I would extend that to simple lay reports.  If you weren't there why would you care.

Quote from: Jaeger on May 14, 2023, 12:15:26 AM
The old audience, the group of fans that stuck with D&D through thick and thin

That is quite the whopper you just told there.

Stuck with D&D through thick and thin? Y'all turned on D&D. The chips were down after 4e and it was you guys who bailed for the OSR and have been bashing D&D ever since. That's a DECADE now of bashing, at least. Which is why I am always surprised at this constant refrain that people who like the OSR are somehow victims of WOTC and WOTC abandoned you. You guys abandoned THEM, remember? They reached out again by hiring Pundit as a consultant, he got them to release Basic D&D and the starter set, and you guys still turned your back on them when they needed your support after what happened with 4e.

Let's not re-write history. WOTC "turned" on the old school players because for years and years the old school players have been turning on them and bashing them for literally anything they say or do and playing the victim. You declared yourselves not the WOTC audience and act offended when they shrug and treat you like you're not the audience.

You're painting with pretty broad strokes to make your point. There are plenty of folks who play 5e and also play older editions, OSR games and even non-D&D games. There are also players who anticipated 5e and then didn't like it. Remember when 5e D&D Next was supposed to be compatible with all editions? You imagine that some folks didn't get ticked when that didn't happen? Oh, and don't forget how WOTC likes to bad mouth older players and editions now. So, not quite so black and white, is it?

Quote from: Mistwell on May 14, 2023, 09:31:57 PM
Let's not re-write history.

Then why are you bothering to post?

Won't somebody think of WotC? Why did you guys betray it when it needed you the most? How could you?!? 

How dare you guys play the victim when you left it like a wounded animal then stumped on it when it was trying to get back up? You heartless brutes! 

Quote from: Slambo on May 14, 2023, 09:22:34 AM

Quote from: Summon666 on May 14, 2023, 01:09:41 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 14, 2023, 12:38:30 AM

Quote from: Baron on May 13, 2023, 08:54:48 PM

Quote from: Summon666 on May 13, 2023, 08:26:55 PM
Everyone thought the GamesWorkShop network would be a joke... still going strong years latter with more content being added all the time.. https://warhammerplus.com/

Is this the thing that started in August of 2021?

The thing that can't manage to produce good content once per month.

That's not the point.. the point is that it is successful. People are paying for it, no idea who or why... but a LOT of people are. So the hasbro chan thing is less a "WTF why are they doing" this and a more "why is not more companies doing it".

Iirc Warhammer+ is currently losing money. Its just they poured a ton into it and they're trying to make it profitable.

They intimidated all the content creators on YT to come work for them (some did), they're putting out shit, I would need to go search for the Arch video where he shows the quality of their animation, but I'll leave you this one instead:



Part of their content includes (believe it or not) miniature painting tutorials, of which you can find thousands for free on YT.

I very much doubt they are making ANY money, but I'll gladly eat crow if anyone can show proof to the contrary (GW swearing by the Emperor they are isn't proof mind you).

The streaming wars are over, everybody is collapsing/cutting costs, so OF COURSE this is the time GWotKKK chooses to launch theirs...

Disney just had their stock downgraded, Netflix is also cutting down, HBO is in the same boat, and those have more genres at their dispossal than D&D.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 15, 2023, 12:19:21 AMThey intimidated all the content creators on YT to come work for them (some did)

I agree, I think this is the main goal. With uTube getting more strange with content banning and how the payout works. It is less and less possible for tubers to make money unless the channel is super large... and in most cases the money is still coming from donations like Pateron or Sponsored Content (which uTube takes a cut of). This is why people are moving back to dailyMotion and Vemo again, as they are a lot like oldTube... you can post almost anything there, not sure how they get away with it and they have much higher payouts... but literally millions and millions less traffic and clicks.

So it is attractive to a youtuber to get a big company like GamesWorkshop or Hasbro to pay them an actually wage and give them acess to all the pre-release content. This is how GamesWorkshop dose it, and I am sure Hasbro will as well. They'll stop sending magic cards out to people or DnD books forcing the tubers to buy them themselves, meanwhile hosting shows on the channel.. which I am willing to bet will be part of the top tier DnDBeyond sub and actually already be available to many users of that service....

Quote from: Summon666 on May 15, 2023, 01:16:15 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 15, 2023, 12:19:21 AMThey intimidated all the content creators on YT to come work for them (some did)

I agree, I think this is the main goal. With uTube getting more strange with content banning and how the payout works. It is less and less possible for tubers to make money unless the channel is super large... and in most cases the money is still coming from donations like Pateron or Sponsored Content (which uTube takes a cut of). This is why people are moving back to dailyMotion and Vemo again, as they are a lot like oldTube... you can post almost anything there, not sure how they get away with it and they have much higher payouts... but literally millions and millions less traffic and clicks.

So it is attractive to a youtuber to get a big company like GamesWorkshop or Hasbro to pay them an actually wage and give them acess to all the pre-release content. This is how GamesWorkshop dose it, and I am sure Hasbro will as well. They'll stop sending magic cards out to people or DnD books forcing the tubers to buy them themselves, meanwhile hosting shows on the channel.. which I am willing to bet will be part of the top tier DnDBeyond sub and actually already be available to many users of that service....

Streaming is collapsing, there's not enough money for all of them, if HBO, Disney, Netflix, etc are having to size down (with more diverse content that appeals to different sectors {Except Disney}) what do you think will happen to Warhammer+ or the D&D thingy?

Arch has ZERO overhead to produce a lore video, GW has big fixed costs BEFORE producing anything, same for D&D, it's not something they can absorv.

Why do you think GWotKKK wanted the new OGL? to extract money from independent creators, if they were smart they would choose one or two animators and make a deal with them for the rights of Strahd or something like that. Where they get 50% of whatever the channel gets from those animations. Zero overhead or risk, pure profit.

Like I say WH+ isn't making ANY money (change my mind) and the D&D thingy won't either. And Critical Role is about to ditch them and release TWO RPGs.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 15, 2023, 01:54:29 AMLike I say WH+ isn't making ANY money (change my mind) and the D&D thingy won't either.

None of the streaming services pull a profit, apart from Netflix and they lost billions for years. I mean, Amazon didn't pull a profit until 2004. People outside big businesses tend to think in red and black, but that is not how big business works. Dinsey+, Paramount+ or w/e all collectively lost billions on their services, but that does not mean they were not successful in those final years.

WH+ is making them money due to it focused usage. I think it only has a few 100 thousand subs, but the content costs nearly nothing. Just some googling should bring up a lot of results to confirm this. I know that they are expanding it, so there must be some data to support that.

The thing with WOTC is that I believe the subscription will be part of DnDBeyond. So unlike WH+ which is an additional thing you get, many, many users will already have access to it as part of their normal subscription. This could easily make it integrate very well into the online community they are trying to build. If people get used to it, log into DnDBeyond, then click to get a lore video from the writer of the latest book they are playing though... when that becomes "normal" it could lead to something big for them.

Personally, I left WoTC behind in the 90s. It baffles me people play DnD to be honest, and the idea of paying for an online subscription for it is crazy to me. That being said, I think the idea of streaming services is not as farfetched as some people in this thread are making out. Remember, most of the big tubers only exist due to patron and advertising... which is not much different as subbing to an official stream, a stream I suspect many DnDBeyond users will already have access to.

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 14, 2023, 10:24:30 PM
Won't somebody think of WotC? Why did you guys betray it when it needed you the most? How could you?!? 

I am not the one who made the claim they "stuck with it through thick and thin."

It's baloney. Y'all bailed years and years ago.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on May 15, 2023, 12:27:22 AM
The streaming wars are over, everybody is collapsing/cutting costs, so OF COURSE this is the time GWotKKK chooses to launch theirs...

Disney just had their stock downgraded, Netflix is also cutting down, HBO is in the same boat, and those have more genres at their dispossal than D&D.

I could be wrong but I am pretty sure this isn't that kind of streaming. It's not going to be a service you get directly to your TV through a subscription like Netflix (though, again, I could be wrong in that guess). I am guessing it's going to be a Twitch channel or something like that. They're just expanding what they've been doing for years into an "official" 24 hour stream rather than just releasing shows here and there.

Quote from: Mistwell on May 15, 2023, 02:25:00 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on May 14, 2023, 10:24:30 PM
Won't somebody think of WotC? Why did you guys betray it when it needed you the most? How could you?!? 

I am not the one who made the claim they "stuck with it through thick and thin."

Who did? Can you quote them?

Quote from: Mistwell on May 14, 2023, 09:31:57 PM

Quote from: Jaeger on May 14, 2023, 12:15:26 AM
The old audience, the group of fans that stuck with D&D through thick and thin

That is quite the whopper you just told there.

Stuck with D&D through thick and thin? Y'all turned on D&D. The chips were down after 4e and it was you guys who bailed for the OSR and have been bashing D&D ever since. That's a DECADE now of bashing, at least. Which is why I am always surprised at this constant refrain that people who like the OSR are somehow victims of WOTC and WOTC abandoned you. You guys abandoned THEM, remember? They reached out again by hiring Pundit as a consultant, he got them to release Basic D&D and the starter set, and you guys still turned your back on them when they needed your support after what happened with 4e.

Let's not re-write history. WOTC "turned" on the old school players because for years and years the old school players have been turning on them and bashing them for literally anything they say or do and playing the victim. You declared yourselves not the WOTC audience and act offended when they shrug and treat you like you're not the audience.

Exactly where in my post did I mention the OSR?

I'll wait for it...


Compared to official D&D: The OSR is a Side Show, and Everyone knows it.

The overwhelming majority of D&D fans went running back to daddy Wotzi the second they gave them an excuse to with 5e.

The overwhelming majority of D&D fandom, old and new, has always, and continues to, play nothing but official D&D.

But the past eight years or so Wotzi D&D has gotten even more "new" fans, that now probably outnumber the old hell or highwater D&D fans.

With all the new fans, Wotzi can well afford to ditch all the older fandom that might not be inclined to follow them to the OneVTT, if the new kids are able to be monetized the way Wotzi is hoping they can.