A few years ago, the Kickstarter for the D&D documentary was successfully funded, and people were enthused for it. They posted frequent updates and people felt positive about it.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewpascal/dungeons-and-dragons-a-documentary/comments
But a few strange things have happened. The documentary was I guess by three people, one of them named Andrew Pascal. Andrew is actually the name of the Kickstarter "account". But somehow, two things happened. Pascal announced "The Great Kingdom", which appears to be an independent effort, and doesn't reference the other documentary, and if you follow the link and read the latest comments, it seems that the other project was unaware of this back in January, and I've noticed that Pascal's name has disappeared from the docs backer information (though not some of the media like the pitch). Nobody's said an official word from either side.
So, I find myself a little perplexed by this. Did the partners have a falling out? If so, I am concerned about the backing because (a) did one party take some footage meant for this project for the other one, when we backed this one and (b) is this an amicable split or an acrimonious one. I guess my concern is if this partnership has disintegrated, how does the funding get split or what effect does it have on previously released footage.
Welcome to the not-wonderful world of ever increasing kickstarter failures.
Saw that some time ago while looking for gaming documentaries. Too bad it seems to have either fizzled out or one of the members made off with the money as happened to Doom that came to Atlantic City.
See, I don't think it's that simple. Reportedly, both filmmakers were at GaryCon. I think there needs to be some sort of update made. They have fulfilled past rewards such as the books from associated people.
That is odd. And 2 months of near silence on the project after the "We are investigating another D&D documentary" post January 30th. And a year and a half since the KS finished.
Could be they are just busy or have nothing to report? Rude yes. But distractions are like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhSlQQXbuQQ
Well, the big problem like I mentioned is Pascal was one of the three partners in the documentary--looking at earlier posts he actually made updates. But now, there's just silence about this, and it appears he's disappeared from this project.
I know that both camps were scheduled to make appearances and conduct interviews at GaryCon. But the silence about this perceived split from both camps is worrisome, especially the statement on KS of surprise over this.
The key thing is, and what worries me, is if the person who left to do TGK is using footage and interviews paid for by the funds from this Kickstarter. If so, that could be considered some form of fraud and perhaps actionable. If there's any acrimony between the two camps it could be that there's a legal battle behind the scenes which is why there's silence.
Well the KS page lists no risks. And KS itself is just a fasciliator of funding.
They could use the funds to make two docs, or funnel the funds into a second documentary, or whatever. As long as they produce a D&D documantary they are in the clear to do with the funds as they please.
Using the Atlantic City example again. The guy the funds went to took the money and bought a new house and filming equipment and made at least one short movie. The backers never got their game. But had he actually produced the game and funneled the rest into his movie. No one would have had any say.
As was though backers went after him in various ways. But to date only one person ever recieved a refund.
From the footage up as is it looks like they were being true to the project up untill the odd 2 month silence.
And that could be anything from being busy, to the aformentioned split.
Did they actually show up at the convention and did anyone talk to them there about this?
Jesus Christ. Why don't you just go to the two Kickstarter pages and ask them.
Yes, Andrew and Anthony were both at GaryCon. Yes, I talked to them both. Yes, they are both continuing their work on two different films. Yes, I've been interviewed by both.
As far as details of what happened to funding, why the FUCK don't you ask the people involved instead of stirring shit over here?
Mother FUCK I hate gamers.
Quote from: Old Geezer;740960Jesus Christ. Why don't you just go to the two Kickstarter pages and ask them.
Yes, Andrew and Anthony were both at GaryCon. Yes, I talked to them both. Yes, they are both continuing their work on two different films. Yes, I've been interviewed by both.
As far as details of what happened to funding, why the FUCK don't you ask the people involved instead of stirring shit over here?
Mother FUCK I hate gamers.
er.. People have been asking... That was the problem. No answers. As said. I just assume they are busy.
Quote from: Old Geezer;740960Jesus Christ. Why don't you just go to the two Kickstarter pages and ask them.
I was about to write something on their page since I was a backer, but I assumed perhaps somebody like you would have heard something, so rather than "make a stink" right on their page, which might be interpreted as hostile, I figured somebody who was recently interviewed or who might have heard something, and perhaps relay that message, so I wouldn't have voice a concern right on the Kickstarter page.
Keep in mind, some people invested heavily into that.
Also, The Great Kingdom does NOT have a Kickstarter page.
Quote from: Old Geezer;740960Mother FUCK I hate gamers.
Kind of a weird thing to say and gives off a hint of self-loathing, especially if you're interviewed and at GaryCon. Seriously, your not gonna get far with any Kickstarter of your own with that attitude.
Quote from: Omega;740964er.. People have been asking... That was the problem. No answers. As said. I just assume they are busy.
Grar.
My apologies to everyone, I'm just feeling pissy tonight.
Sorry.
No worries, we all go through that sometimes.
The two projects are separate. TGK is NOT funded by Kickstarter. Anthony kept that money when the two parties dissolved the partnership. Andrew went on and funded the TGK on his own. Andrew hired a new director and the new director came with new ideas. No footage originally shot for the kickstarter doc is being used for The Great Kingdom Doc. Andrew and company started from scratch. Anthony and Andrew were not in agreement about the direction of the kickstarter documentary. Allegedly, Anthony is trying to shut down Andrew and The Great Kingdom by way of lawsuits and arbitration. Anthony's project is supposed to be the definitive D&D documentary, covering all aspects of the game from inception to modern video games. The Great Kingdom focuses on the personal lives affected by the development of the game and the company.
There is bad blood between both parties. Why the split? Creative differences I'm sure, however, it is rumored that Anthony held the original footage hostage and didn't allow Andrew to see any footage. It's a shame that this is happening. There's room for two documentaries - one focusing on the complete history of the game itself and its far reaching influence ( a discovery channel project) and one focusing on the people behind the game (a film festival project).
The kickstarter backers should ask Anthony about the status of the original documentary and if he is spending the kickstarter money on legal counsel. And, separately, ask Andrew why the original partnership dissolved.
I'm sure we will know more as both projects move forward or get buried under litigation. Let's hope we get to see a kick-ass documentary about the game we love.
Quote from: lordsofdiscipline;741162The two projects are separate. TGK is NOT funded by Kickstarter. Anthony kept that money when the two parties dissolved the partnership. Andrew went on and funded the TGK on his own. Andrew hired a new director and the new director came with new ideas. No footage originally shot for the kickstarter doc is being used for The Great Kingdom Doc. Andrew and company started from scratch. Anthony and Andrew were not in agreement about the direction of the kickstarter documentary. Allegedly, Anthony is trying to shut down Andrew and The Great Kingdom by way of lawsuits and arbitration. Anthony's project is supposed to be the definitive D&D documentary, covering all aspects of the game from inception to modern video games. The Great Kingdom focuses on the personal lives affected by the development of the game and the company.
There is bad blood between both parties. Why the split? Creative differences I'm sure, however, it is rumored that Anthony held the original footage hostage and didn't allow Andrew to see any footage. It's a shame that this is happening. There's room for two documentaries - one focusing on the complete history of the game itself and its far reaching influence ( a discovery channel project) and one focusing on the people behind the game (a film festival project).
The kickstarter backers should ask Anthony about the status of the original documentary and if he is spending the kickstarter money on legal counsel. And, separately, ask Andrew why the original partnership dissolved.
I'm sure we will know more as both projects move forward or get buried under litigation. Let's hope we get to see a kick-ass documentary about the game we love.
Anthony was well aware of The Great Kingdom Doc when the two parties split last year.
I would have prefered my version where "they were just busy" was the way things went. Assuming the above info is correct of course.
ow.
Why not work on both? Or merge them into one? The history and industry level and the people level?
That long response is full of hearsay; I'd rather stick to facts.
Quote from: Old Geezer;741175That long response is full of hearsay; I'd rather stick to facts.
Those are the facts. Trust me.
Quote from: Omega;741174I would have prefered my version where "they were just busy" was the way things went. Assuming the above info is correct of course.
ow.
Why not work on both? Or merge them into one? The history and industry level and the people level?
The above info is correct. Two docs would be great. Merging is not going to happen.
There's been a little news about it here.
http://www.lakegenevanews.net/Articles-Lake-Geneva-News-i-2014-04-10-252946.114135-DandD-film-explores-lightning-in-a-bottle.html
I just posted on KS asking for some kind of confirmation, since the most troubling thing is the silence on this issue. I think they definitely need to address this to the backers.
I think it's hilarious that that's not Anthony.
There was a recent update addressing the issues.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/andrewpascal/dungeons-and-dragons-a-documentary/posts/802776
It's a little vague, I suspect lawyers are involved. Hope this will be able to be released.
The people behind The Great Kingdom has been ordered by court not to advertise their movie or speak about it in public.
Thats why the Kickstarter, website (thegreatkingdom.com) and facebook page is closed.
The case is set for october, and nothing will probably happen before.
You can find all the material and documents from the court case here: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/DocumentList?docketId=yrhRL9H9/SZtgTonUcRyZg==&display=all
They reading the last document, #41. It sums it up quite well.
Yeah, I pretty much found out about that. I mentioned it in the other thread but bumping it just brought back a tangential argument.
Interestingly enough, one of the biggest problems that came up in the court case was the big push conducted to get the Kickstarter over the finish line. There was a thread on Tenkar's Tavern which I participated in that ended up being used as Exhibit B.
Site: http://www.tenkarstavern.com/2014/07/another-dungeons-dragons-documentary-is.html#comment-form
Screen Grab: https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=KIjUy5LQo/234UDywPox_PLUS_g==
This argument came up in the plantiff's follow-up--see here.
https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=xgTK9ttAKnRVlmVFGwZ9TA==
QuoteAnother of the supporters to which defendants are grateful is Benoist Poire. See Ex. A. Hereto. Through his support for defendants' competing film, he apparently has been given the impression by defendants' that "the Great Kingdom grew out of" the D&D Production. The Benoist comment can be seen at Exhibit B p. 2. Ernie Gygax, another supporter of the competing film and a relative founder of D&D, also acknowledges there that defendants have "spent a couple of years and plenty of air miles" on the competing project. Id. By defendants own admission they had only started working on the competing project in or about August, 2013, almost one year ago -- by no means "a couple of years". Ernie Gygax, who had been interviewed for the D&D production in 2012 simply acknowledges that defendant's competing film is a product of the original partnership's hard work and expenditures.
Benoist and Ernie Gygax were really pushing social media to get this project funded--I think they really helped convincing those on the ledge to back the project. But the big irony is their very defense and promotion of that project may have helped the other guys win the injunction, which may ultimately sink the project. My concerns about the law suit ultimately proved correct.
I just feel for the backers (I ended up backing it once it passed its goals, since if the film gets made I'd buy a copy anyway). I knew the risks going in, but I really hope all the other backers were all aware of the risks.
I suspect one of two things will happen--either the Kickstarter money is going into voluntary or court ordered Escrow which means nobody can touch it until this is resolved, or since the court order doesn't prohibit that, they may go into the post-production process--but if they spend the money on that, what happens if the plaintiffs win?
I wonder if the responsible thing to do would have been to cancel the Kickstarter immediately after the lawsuit was filed. It looks like (can't really tell since it's not in a doc) that they were able to convince the judge to delay the injunction ruling to a date after the Kickstarter was completed.
I hope when the judge makes her decisions she gives some consideration to the backers involved, since with the KS page down it's gonna back it difficult to communicate with the backers. At the very least I hope they are allowed to give a statement indicating how the funds are being handled while this action is going on.
Crazy!
Necroing the thread since this makes sense.
Over 5.5 years since the first one was backed, and about 4 years since the second one was backed, and after 4 years of a legal battle, the lawsuit has been dismissed with prejudice.
So I guess we have to see "now what". I have not been pleased with the DnD Doc folks since they have not posted a Kickstarter Update since Jan 2016, and other backers have been annoyed. (You can say they probably had to keep things mum but even a simple update on the lawsuit would have been the kind thing to do).
The Great Kingdom's injunction has lifted so once the legal word is confirmed and their Kickstarter and web sites can go back up we may see what happens on their end.
But now what? With all the money spent on lawyers and in this battle both parties could be financially exhausted. I also feel that they lost the real exciting momentum all the backers and (at the time) the industry had for this thing. Will we see a movie? Two movies? Will these be on Netflix and distributed widely or forced to buy DVDs at GaryCon or some other small circuit convention? Do they still have enough money or will a second KS be needed to finish.
This one certainly didn't have a lot of public-facing drama, but I feel it was one of the better KS that got squandered.