Is the 5e "Golden Age" (if you can call it that) really ending? And if so, who will be better for it?
#dnd #ttrpg #osr

Is the Golden Age for 5e over?  Yes, thank the deity of your choice.

Is it going to damage the RPG industry?  WOTC for sure.  Some of the other big publishers are going to fade out too.  I think that the hobby is going to take on a different shape and move in a positive direction.  I think there will be some pain involved but I think in 18-24 months (if WWIII isn't raging) RPG players are really going to be happier with gaming spaces and products that are available.

I mentioned before that I think there's a split coming in RPGs as a whole.  I don't know what you would want to call them but there's going to be PbtA type games with player control over the meta narrative of the game on one side and crunchier games where rule 0 reigns supreme.  There's already a natural gulf and it's easy to pick out the kind of game it is by just looking at who's sitting at the table.  I think the ending of 5e will be the point at which they are considered two different hobbies, even if it's just in hind sight. 

I also think we're getting near a tipping point where there's going to be an anti-woke crusade.  It will happen in the share gaming spaces but it's going to happen a lot in culture in general.

WOTC's hail Mary pass in 2024; will be shiny new core books with new art pieces, and a level 1-20 adventure with Vecna as the big bad.

If that stuff doesn't sell like hotcakes, they are screwed.  The only other potential aces up their sleeve, are both problematic.  The Queen of Spiders herself, and Dark Sun.

I'm not sure I buy the premise that there was a golden age to begin with.  I don't think that a large influx of tourists represents a golden age.  That's what a lot of these people are really.  Fads are, by nature, short-lived.  When the fad is over, they will be gone. 

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 10:17:21 PM
I'm not sure I buy the premise that there was a golden age to begin with.  I don't think that a large influx of tourists represents a golden age.  That's what a lot of these people are really.  Fads are, by nature, short-lived.  When the fad is over, they will be gone.

This.

I tend to call these types of people Secondaries. They Have no love for the hobby and were merely a temporary surplus, in fact these types of trends tend to hurt hobbies overall because the industry of said hobby adjusts to the influx and then when it Secondaries leave, the industry has no way to cope with the mass exodus.

Logically it's never good in the long term to chase short term trends, and thus I'd agree this was never Golden Age, a Golden age implies a long period of stability.

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 10:17:21 PM
I'm not sure I buy the premise that there was a golden age to begin with.  I don't think that a large influx of tourists represents a golden age.  That's what a lot of these people are really.  Fads are, by nature, short-lived.  When the fad is over, they will be gone.

Well then, 5E was a hell of a fad.  It had legs, and lasted a while.

The Golden Shower age, maybe.

Quote from: Jam The MF on January 05, 2024, 10:37:06 PM

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 10:17:21 PM
I'm not sure I buy the premise that there was a golden age to begin with.  I don't think that a large influx of tourists represents a golden age.  That's what a lot of these people are really.  Fads are, by nature, short-lived.  When the fad is over, they will be gone.

Well then, 5E was a hell of a fad.  It had legs, and lasted a while.

I'm talking about the influx of people from the popularity of Stranger Things and Critical Role not everyone playing 5e.  One of the reasons why 5e was so successful is that it brought back players who had been alienated by 4e.  These were existing players who had either dropped out or gone to competing products like Pathfinder.  That has very little to do with the influx of tourists after Stranger Things and 80s nostalgia in general got big. 

As manufactured, and often inauthentic as the current fad for the 80s is, I'm going to miss it. Because the 80's were awesome, so even its shadow is decent.

The 90s fad will be OK. Once we hit "hey, remember the 2000s?" I'm checking out of everything.

wotc is going to screw up 6e massively.

Just listen to Perkins go on about the new "totally legit would we lie to you its really still 5e!" DMG changes alone.

The changes to the system across the board is more dumbing down of the system and pushing storygamer dogma of "The DM is only there to serve the players. Every player is a DM!" 

Quote from: yosemitemike on January 05, 2024, 10:17:21 PM
I'm not sure I buy the premise that there was a golden age to begin with.  I don't think that a large influx of tourists represents a golden age.  That's what a lot of these people are really.  Fads are, by nature, short-lived.  When the fad is over, they will be gone.

I understand your perspective, but I disagree.  The 5e influx brought a lot of money and people into the hobby, not just to WOTC. 

A lot of people were inspired to create new stuff and a lot of people were inspired to try out games they hadn't before.  I admit that a lot of it is shit but there has been some good stuff come along.

Several games that were thought dead have been resurrected.  Traveller being one near and dear to my heart.  Sure the Mongoose books are of mediocre quality but we now have Cepheus Engine and T5.

While most new players are tourists, there have been some that have been willing to try out new games and really be a part of the hobby.

I'm certainly not saying it's all been cherries.  We have seen nearly all the online spaces get flooded with SJWs, something I'm sure is directly linked to the 5e up swell.  While the higher profile of the hobby has made it more acceptable (we nerds need not fear the locker because of funny shaped dice anymore) it's also had it's image tarnished in a different way simply due to low quality output from WOTC.

Quote from: Omega on January 05, 2024, 11:25:58 PM
wotc is going to screw up 6e massively.

Just listen to Perkins go on about the new "totally legit would we lie to it its really still 5e!" DMG changes alone.

The chances to the system across the board is more dumbing down of the system and pushing storygamer dogma of "The DM is only there to serve the players. Every player is a DM!"

I agree with this post, 100%.

Quote from: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 11:28:42 PM
I understand your perspective, but I disagree.  The 5e influx brought a lot of money and people into the hobby, not just to WOTC. 

A lot of people were inspired to create new stuff and a lot of people were inspired to try out games they hadn't before.  I admit that a lot of it is shit but there has been some good stuff come along.

Indeed this is a big thing.

5e harkened back to TSR era D&D even with wotc trying their damndest to fuck it up at every turn. It proved the OSR was a sham and it succeeded against all odds.

But wotc being wotc, success is unacceptable and so they have to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by any and every means possible.

Quote from: Omega on January 06, 2024, 12:12:17 AM

Quote from: BadApple on January 05, 2024, 11:28:42 PM
I understand your perspective, but I disagree.  The 5e influx brought a lot of money and people into the hobby, not just to WOTC. 

A lot of people were inspired to create new stuff and a lot of people were inspired to try out games they hadn't before.  I admit that a lot of it is shit but there has been some good stuff come along.

Indeed this is a big thing.

5e harkened back to TSR era D&D even with wotc trying their damndest to fuck it up at every turn. It proved the OSR was a sham and it succeeded against all odds.

But wotc being wotc, success is unacceptable and so they have to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs by any and every means possible.

Greetings!

The OSR is a sham, Omega? How is the OSR a sham?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: Grognard GM on January 05, 2024, 10:45:40 PM
The Golden Shower age, maybe.

You brought it up so I can't be held responsible:
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/165/910/9da.png