I've heard variations of some parts of that article coming out of my own mouth at times... mostly as a reaction to other forms of entertainment. Most of what he's on about seems way more common in video games and action movies than it does any RPGs I've played in.

Quote from: Zak S;807798"Is there any research indicating that people who play RPGs believe these things more or more often than people who don't play them? Or that they became more popular after RPGs became popular?
Or is the author just guessing that if they see a theme, then the game must automatically be perpetuating  their interpretation of that theme?"

Good questions.

QuoteWhich is really bizarre to me--it's like they don't mind spreading a really dumb article with a really dumb premise. Like whether it's true or not didn't seem to be an issue at all for them.

Articles like that are just click bait. Various "news" outlets (print and online) have published similarly unsourced, vague, generalized, crap articles on all sorts of scare topics and have done so for years. And for as long as that has been done, people have been really happy to pass those articles along.

Quote from: jeff37923;807806I read that blog and the only thing I wanted to ask the author was, "I thought that RPGs were supposed to be played for entertainment? You know, to have fun?"

Exactly! Its fun, its a story. No one (or God I hope not) is modeling their lives and attitudes off of rpg. If you want to address those "myths" in your games because it makes them more fun, go for it. But its not some kind of moral duty to make your Let's Pretend time is proper.

The article would have been much more palatable if its tone had been more "Here's some ideas to make your rpg sessions more interesting and detailed" than "You're doing it wrong", IMO.

Quote from: Bren;807810Articles like that are just click bait. Various "news" outlets (print and online) have published similarly unsourced, vague, generalized, crap articles on all sorts of scare topics and have done so for years. And for as long as that has been done, people have been really happy to pass those articles along.

Quote from: Nexus;807811Exactly! Its fun, its a story. No one (or God I hope not) is modeling their lives and attitudes off of rpg. If you want to address those "myths" in your games because it makes them more fun, go for it. But its not some kind of moral duty to make your Let's Pretend time is proper.

Yeah, everything stated by the author should be prefaced by the statement, "Within the context of most RPGs, the author believes....". As is, the article reminds me of some of the published screeds of Pat Pulling from the 80's in their implied belief that how we play our games is how we live our lives in the real world.

Quote from: jeff37923;807813Yeah, everything stated by the author should be prefaced by the statement, "Within the context of most RPGs, the author believes....". As is, the article reminds me of some of the published screeds of Pat Pulling from the 80's in their implied belief that how we play our games is how we live our lives in the real world.

Meh. I just mentally prefix that in front of any post on the internet I ever read... but that said, I've rarely seen a "well, that's just your opinion" reply when the commenter agreed with an article.

So.

The stuff in the article looks like it would fit fine in any text about worldbuilding; the world runs regardless of what PC's do, PC's didn't spring into being at the start of the campaign, you could try talking to the monsters. It's not saying that players believe in these concepts, or that they encourage players to believe in these concepts, but that the concepts are dull and perpetuated for the sake of it than for any value they have.

Ironically though, the replies have drawn out something about online RPG culture; the thin-skinned, "any discussion of my hobby that isn't framed how I like it is an attack!", petulant nature of it. It's just an article saying that some tropes in some games are a bit crap.

Quote from: Ladybird;807818Ironically though, the replies have drawn out something about online RPG culture; the thin-skinned, "any discussion of my hobby that isn't framed how I like it is an attack!", petulant nature of it. It's just an article saying that some tropes in some games are a bit crap.

Yes, the Pearl - Clutch factor has grown over the years.

I blame banning of the more prolific trolls. Back in the BT days, nothing short of Killing Orcs is Holocaust provoked such flames.

Quote from: Ladybird;807818Ironically though, the replies have drawn out something about online RPG culture; the thin-skinned, "any discussion of my hobby that isn't framed how I like it is an attack!", petulant nature of it. It's just an article saying that some tropes in some games are a bit crap.

If its framed  from the opening salvo with loaded words like "destructive" and "dark side", I don't blame people for interpreting the rant as an attack. Not to mention the unsubtle message of the Cowboy & Indians image. It's very obvious that if you're playing with those tropes you're engaging in destructive badwrongfun.

I'm very far from being convinced an article written by some random blogger too big for his own soapbox typifies anything about the "current atmosphere in RPG culture." It's part of the noise, not the signal.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;807828I'm very far from being convinced an article written by some random blogger too big for his own soapbox typifies anything about the "current atmosphere in RPG culture." It's part of the noise, not the signal.

Agreed... but his tone does coincide with positions I've seen a lot of my non-gamer friends taking over the past few years. A knee-jerk SJW stance aimed at making the person feel more enlightened and therefore suited to pointing out all the ills of the world from on high. Like the Church Lady sketch without the church... where you replace 'Satan!' with 'Old White Men!'.

Quote from: Ladybird;807818It's not saying that players believe in these concepts, or that they encourage players to believe in these concepts, but that the concepts are dull and perpetuated for the sake of it than for any value they have...It's just an article saying that some tropes in some games are a bit crap.

Not at all--it is not making that modest claim.

It is literally saying they encourage players to believe these concepts. Or at least believe them longer.

It says "5 Destructive Myths Perpetuated By RPGs" not "5 Ideas I Am Bored Of That Are  Perpetuated In RPGS"--which would be a regular old blog post.

That's what the word "perpetuate" means. It means that the Myths would go away faster if not for the RPGs they are in. There is no other literal interpretation of the title.

Your interpretation requires that the author meant something different than what they wrote--which is fine. But then they're still spreading misinformation and should go back and change the title in case anyone believes it.

Quote from: Xavier Onassiss;807828I'm very far from being convinced an article written by some random blogger too big for his own soapbox typifies anything about the "current atmosphere in RPG culture." It's part of the noise, not the signal.

I more meant the whole overly obsessed with being political correct, typifying different opinion is not just different or not for you but actively bad and destructive or assuming that someone way of playing D and D or Champions describes their entire moral and ethical outlook and even day to day behavior.

And if they don't agree with you, of course, they are the enemy, probably corrupt bigots that kick babies. The article isn't sole damning proof but its seems pretty typical of that sort ofo thing which, IME, is popping up more and more.

Its not that the author has opinions. Everyone has them. It how they're framed and presented. As righteous moral guidelines from Mt Superiority.

My thoughts on the "five great myths" in the OP link:

1) It's a game, not a theory of history. Most player-characters in games such as old D&D or Boot Hill end up dead without becoming "great men." On the other hand, they undertake adventures more exciting than being shop clerks and housewives because having fun doing that is what play (as opposed to pedantry) is about.

2) Again there's the common-sense consideration that maybe people who can't tell the difference between games and real life should pay more attention to the latter. And again it depends on which game you choose to play - a matter more of the group of participants than of any handbook.

3) This is getting old, but once again It's a game! You want to play Follow the Freeway Signs to the Shopping Mall, suit yourself. Take a look at the subjects favored for stories, and the structures of things called games, among people throughout history all over the world.

4) No, it's not a surprise to most people. Hmmm....

5) Didn't you get the memo? The whole hobby is a plot by Satan! Get out of it now, and say no more of it.

It's not "RPG culture," I've noticed this influx of hyper politically correct finger-wagging internet social justice phenomena in all forms the last few years. Games, anime, movies, comics, social etiquette, sex, you name it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;807849It's not "RPG culture," I've noticed this influx of hyper politically correct finger-wagging internet social justice phenomena in all forms the last few years. Games, anime, movies, comics, social etiquette, sex, you name it.

Very true, its not just role playing but that subject of site and one of the things I care the most about. But yeah this is an era of shame, divisiveness and outrage which are ironically mostly hammered home by cries for inclusiveness, understanding and acceptance.

Quote from: Zak S;807833Your interpretation requires that the author meant something different than what they wrote--which is fine. But then they're still spreading misinformation and should go back and change the title in case anyone believes it.

Yeah, I'd agree with that - it's got a clickbait title. I don't feel that detracts from the actual content of the article, though.

Sadly, accurate titling on the internet is a lost art.