Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 08, 2023, 08:51:44 AM
No one wanted to hear about a character's sob story about why they ended up as a nobody adventurer...

So true. At most, one sentence is needed. "I used to be a baroness, but now I kill rats in a gross cellar."

Quote from: Scooter on August 08, 2023, 09:31:09 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 08, 2023, 08:51:44 AM
Maybe it is time to just address the elephant in the room and break the hard news. IT'S A GAME!!!  Do you cry and throw a pity party when your bishop gets taken in chess? Back when I first started with Holmes and B/X we sometimes wouldn't even name a character until 2nd level.

It is the last couple generations.  Snowflakes.  Jr. H.S. dodge-ball is considered by them to be as bad as real military, life & death combat.

Well, every part of society and media is telling kids that the most important things about them are what color they are, what sex they are, and that personal effort can't overcome the effects of these things (making everyone but white males victims).  Why would you expect them to come to your game looking to achieve anything by personal effort?  They are defined by their backstory in real life, why would a game be any different?

Quote from: Theory of Games on August 07, 2023, 09:38:06 PMOR maaayyyybe you shouldn't play games you don't like then come here to post one's feckless idiotic complaints about a situation a child could avoid?

That and porn are the only two things the internet is really good for.

Quote from: Theory of Games on August 07, 2023, 09:38:06 PMMaybe you could find some friends via the internet that like playing games you like? I did decades ago 

Nah. I'm not a cave-dwelling troll, I don't seek out "friends" based on what RPGs they play, I play what RPGs my friends want to play. The friends and the playing are the important part.

Besides, it's easier to just play what you want, how you want, and tell anyone who says you're playing it wrong to go fuck themselves with a copy of the Talislanta Big Blue Book. More fun, too.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:37:33 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 08, 2023, 09:31:09 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 08, 2023, 08:51:44 AM
Maybe it is time to just address the elephant in the room and break the hard news. IT'S A GAME!!!  Do you cry and throw a pity party when your bishop gets taken in chess? Back when I first started with Holmes and B/X we sometimes wouldn't even name a character until 2nd level.

It is the last couple generations.  Snowflakes.  Jr. H.S. dodge-ball is considered by them to be as bad as real military, life & death combat.

Well, every part of society and media is telling kids that the most important things about them are what color they are, what sex they are, and that personal effort can't overcome the effects of these things (making everyone but white males victims).  Why would you expect them to come to your game looking to achieve anything by personal effort?  They are defined by their backstory in real life, why would a game be any different?

I try to avoid gaming with snowflakes. Those that make it to my table check their snowflake attitude at the door or don't stay long. Metaphorically beating that attitude out of youngsters is something I see as a public service.

Quote from: Eirikrautha on August 08, 2023, 10:37:33 AM

Quote from: Scooter on August 08, 2023, 09:31:09 AM

Quote from: Exploderwizard on August 08, 2023, 08:51:44 AM
Maybe it is time to just address the elephant in the room and break the hard news. IT'S A GAME!!!  Do you cry and throw a pity party when your bishop gets taken in chess? Back when I first started with Holmes and B/X we sometimes wouldn't even name a character until 2nd level.

It is the last couple generations.  Snowflakes.  Jr. H.S. dodge-ball is considered by them to be as bad as real military, life & death combat.

Well, every part of society and media is telling kids that the most important things about them are what color they are, what sex they are, and that personal effort can't overcome the effects of these things (making everyone but white males victims).  Why would you expect them to come to your game looking to achieve anything by personal effort?  They are defined by their backstory in real life, why would a game be any different?

I know.  Stupid me for expecting anything else

Quote from: Opaopajr on August 08, 2023, 03:19:20 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on August 07, 2023, 11:59:10 PM
Opaopajr,

Isn't that the 3.x method? (Except Stabilize is 10%)

"Hovering on Death's Door" optional rule is from AD&D 1e & 2e DMG, IIRC. Yes, just sourced AD&D 2e DMG, it's on p. 105 under Character Death section. So at least from there.

It also wipes spells from memory. Cure only gets you to 1 HP and you can barely function. Heal can get you more HP, and allows you "full vitality & wits" (but again spells memorized are lost). That's a powerful cost to casters!

It sounds like 3e carried it over.  It was a pretty popular optional rule.

Correct. But 3E got rid of the "lose spells" rule:

Quote from: 3E SRDA spellcaster retains the spellcasting capability she had before dropping below 0 hit points.

I always ask my players to keep their PC's backgrounds as simple as possible.

Just a few lines telling me where the PC comes from (city, town, etc.), how did he became an adventurer (former mercenary soldier, former member of a small thieves guild), if he has any family. The player can also add one or two simple goals - and that's it.

I don't like complex, pages-long backgrounds for many reasons: your PC can die at a moment's notice and an elaborate background won't give him plot armor; I don't have neither the time nor the interest to read a detailed and long background; and, more importantly, I prefer to develop that aspect of a PC during the course of the campaign.

Quote from: Greywolf76 on August 12, 2023, 05:32:39 PM
I always ask my players to keep their PC's backgrounds as simple as possible.

Just a few lines telling me where the PC comes from (city, town, etc.), how did he became an adventurer (former mercenary soldier, former member of a small thieves guild), if he has any family. The player can also add one or two simple goals - and that's it.

I don't like complex, pages-long backgrounds for many reasons: your PC can die at a moment's notice and an elaborate background won't give him plot armor; I don't have neither the time nor the interest to read a detailed and long background; and, more importantly, I prefer to develop that aspect of a PC during the course of the campaign.

It isn't just death. I was into writing long backgrounds long ago when I was younger and had the time. A buddy was running a GURPS knights campaign and I wrote an 11 page backstory for my knight. The GM lost interest in the campaign and stopped running it after two sessions. It was at that point that I decided no more backstory beyond a line or two.

Quote from: Tod13 on August 04, 2023, 06:30:05 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 04, 2023, 05:34:48 PM

Quote from: Shaldlay on August 02, 2023, 05:03:08 PM
I've always considered lethality a crucial part of D&D. I consider it so important that I find games that don't risk character death nearly unplayable. What good is "winning" a game if there is no way that I can "lose"? I would think it's very safe to assume that this sort of thought process is shared in this community and in much of the OSR, which makes this contradiction I've come across all that more confusing.

Many OSR/ OSR-adjacent games feature a "background" feature, either Lion and Dragon's Background Events Tables or Deathbringer's Random Misery Table. I actually really like this idea, as I like the characters to be more than just "hero man" and "magic girl," yet, it seems incompatible with the notion of having a deadlier game. If you have a deadlier game, but the characters have backgrounds that the players get attached to, then it can really cause a schism when that character dies and can result in apathy and resentment, something that I very much would want to avoid.

You've never played Traveller?  Your PC has 10, 20, 30 years of background before you even get to play it.

Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!

I'm hoping that you are being flippant here, because death during character generation in Traveller has been optional since 1981. The only version in which death was the only result of a failed survival roll was the 1977 first edition of Traveller.

Now, Traveller works with having detailed backgrounds for characters and a lethal combat system because the core assumption is that combat should be avoided when possible. The same thing applies to Cyberpunk with its Lifepath and high lethality combat. The threat of violence is typically sufficient for most encounters.

Detailed backgrounds and lethal combat does not work for OSR games because the characters are expected to enter combat often - usually in a dungeon. Then again, most players back in the day or in current OSR games I've seen have a backup character ready, if not several. High lethality when entering a dungeon is not only expected, but planned for in the OSR gaming I've seen. A detailed character background was usually saved for when the character has advanced a few levels and proven their survivability.

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

Quote from: Tod13 on August 04, 2023, 06:30:05 PM

Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!

I'm hoping that you are being flippant here, because death during character generation in Traveller has been optional since 1981. The only version in which death was the only result of a failed survival roll was the 1977 first edition of Traveller.

Why are you hoping that?  It is true that, "Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!"

Quote from: Scooter on August 13, 2023, 11:26:10 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

Quote from: Tod13 on August 04, 2023, 06:30:05 PM

Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!

I'm hoping that you are being flippant here, because death during character generation in Traveller has been optional since 1981. The only version in which death was the only result of a failed survival roll was the 1977 first edition of Traveller.

Why are you hoping that?  It is true that, "Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!"

I'm hoping that because it is such a joke trope for Traveller players that Marc Miller's company Far Future Enterprises has sold t-shirts emblazoned with, "I Died In Character Generation" on them.

EDIT: There are several common misconceptions about Traveller. "Computers are huge multi-ton machines", is another one that hinges upon how a displacement ton is a tool for deckplan making and not necessarily mass (a displacement ton is equal to the volume consumed by a mass ton of liquid hydrogen or 13.5 cubic meters). "Traveller is stuck in 1970s technology and science", shows that the person saying that hasn't watched how the game has evolved with advances in science and technology (just compare the equipment available in Classic Traveller to Mongoose Traveller).

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 13, 2023, 11:26:10 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

Quote from: Tod13 on August 04, 2023, 06:30:05 PM

Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!

I'm hoping that you are being flippant here, because death during character generation in Traveller has been optional since 1981. The only version in which death was the only result of a failed survival roll was the 1977 first edition of Traveller.

Why are you hoping that?  It is true that, "Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!"

I'm hoping that because it is such a joke trope for Traveller players that Marc Miller's company Far Future Enterprises has sold t-shirts emblazoned with, "I Died In Character Generation" on them.

You make no sense

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PM"Traveller is stuck in 1970s technology and science", shows that the person saying that hasn't watched how the game has evolved with advances in science and technology (just compare the equipment available in Classic Traveller to Mongoose Traveller).

Why would it being a retro-tech future be a bad thing, and why would changing it to suit the modern mores be a plus? I love concepts where parts of technology advance while others remain backward (look at the Chinese empire and optics for example), and have a real fond spot for spaceships with big computer banks covered in blinking lights.

Hell, the retro-futurism of Cyberpunk 2020/Shadowrun 1st-3rd is beautiful, I have no time at all for the modern iterations that just look like our world but a bit more advanced.

Quote from: Grognard GM on August 13, 2023, 06:00:51 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PM"Traveller is stuck in 1970s technology and science", shows that the person saying that hasn't watched how the game has evolved with advances in science and technology (just compare the equipment available in Classic Traveller to Mongoose Traveller).

Why would it being a retro-tech future be a bad thing, and why would changing it to suit the modern mores be a plus? I love concepts where parts of technology advance while others remain backward (look at the Chinese empire and optics for example), and have a real fond spot for spaceships with big computer banks covered in blinking lights.

Hell, the retro-futurism of Cyberpunk 2020/Shadowrun 1st-3rd is beautiful, I have no time at all for the modern iterations that just look like our world but a bit more advanced.

As I suggested in another thread: zero-G, thrust, microgravity, jump hardened computers might just be bulkier and slower than other computers. That's true today.

Quote from: Scooter on August 13, 2023, 03:28:37 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 01:56:29 PM

Quote from: Scooter on August 13, 2023, 11:26:10 AM

Quote from: jeff37923 on August 13, 2023, 11:08:57 AM

Quote from: Tod13 on August 04, 2023, 06:30:05 PM

Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!

I'm hoping that you are being flippant here, because death during character generation in Traveller has been optional since 1981. The only version in which death was the only result of a failed survival roll was the 1977 first edition of Traveller.

Why are you hoping that?  It is true that, "Depending on the version, you can die in chargen!"

I'm hoping that because it is such a joke trope for Traveller players that Marc Miller's company Far Future Enterprises has sold t-shirts emblazoned with, "I Died In Character Generation" on them.

You make no sense

It makes no sense that I and others find a misconception about a game that hasn't been true in the last 42 years of a game's 46 year history to be tiresome and annoying?