I've said it before but I'm never averse to repeating myself: It's the desire to see one's experiences of real-life obstacles represented through the character without those experiences actually being an obstacle to the character, because the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

If this is an option some groups can make work for their own satisfying entertainment, more power to them. I don't object to products like this, only to the moral browbeating that always turns up in their marketing (like the "ableist" accusation that conflates acknowledging practical limits with implications of diminished personal worth).

They practically do that already with PCs.

Ok. the new site system is already getting on my nerves.

QuoteWOTC should just say that everyone is now cured, healed, and made whole.  All characters are now normal, and ready to start exploring some dungeons!!! 

They practically do that already with PCs.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2024, 02:49:34 PMI've said it before but I'm never averse to repeating myself: It's the desire to see one's experiences of real-life obstacles represented through the character without those experiences actually being an obstacle to the character, because the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

If this is an option some groups can make work for their own satisfying entertainment, more power to them. I don't object to products like this, only to the moral browbeating that always turns up in their marketing (like the "ableist" accusation that conflates acknowledging practical limits with implications of diminished personal worth).

This is the best take of the whole bunch. Also describes why I detest these sort of things in the games I play. I'm looking for a different sort of experience which is broken by these sort of real-life inclusions. Wanting to solve puzzles, loot dungeons, and explore an escapist fantasy realm is a totally different sort of experience. The worst part about WOTC in my mind is the pandering to (in my mind) a completely different sort of experience while using the hollowed out husk of the prior experience to sell it.

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 05, 2024, 12:25:49 AM

Quote from: blackstone on April 04, 2024, 11:06:51 PMI roll to disbelieve.

The wheelchair icon on the cover leads me to believe it's a troll.

Leaning that direction myself.

Quote from: Skullking on April 05, 2024, 07:13:52 AM

Quote from: Ratman_tf on April 04, 2024, 04:50:29 PM"colour" lens for dyslexia?

I don't think dyslexia works that way.

Actually it does. My partner has dyslexia and she and other dyslexics she knows can read better off different coloured backgrounds. For her yellow is best, for others blue works better.

It may be parallel to but not directly related to dyslexia, as other folks like sharpshooters use yellow lenses to help with their accuracy.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2024, 02:49:34 PMI've said it before but I'm never averse to repeating myself: It's the desire to see one's experiences of real-life obstacles represented through the character without those experiences actually being an obstacle to the character, because the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

Problem is it's potentially triggering for the folks who don't want to be reminded of their limits during play, frustrating for the folks who don't want their immersive experience disrupted by incongruous elements, and it creates a weird ownership dynamic where only players with particular conditions can claim authority over what those conditions imply. Ultimately a choice between maintaining the fictional integrity of the setting and validating a player's lived experiences must be made when they are in opposition, and unless those priorities are clear someone's gonna have a bad time.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on June 27, 2024, 05:45:23 PMUltimately a choice between maintaining the fictional integrity of the setting and validating a player's lived experiences must be made when they are in opposition, and unless those priorities are clear someone's gonna have a bad time.

To be fair, if that's exactly what products like this are trying to do -- i.e. support players in creating settings where the fictional integrity and their desired validations don't have to be in opposition -- then in and of itself I've never had a problem with that, as an optional goal of play.

It's the ongoing implication (and occasional outright assertion) that neglecting to actively include PCs and NPCs who require such support is a moral flaw on the part of those who don't to which I object. This is entertainment, not Sunday school.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2024, 02:49:34 PMI've said it before but I'm never averse to repeating myself: It's the desire to see one's experiences of real-life obstacles represented through the character without those experiences actually being an obstacle to the character, because the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

Trying to think of a shorthand for this. Disability theater?

Quote from: Aglondir on June 29, 2024, 01:05:26 AM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2024, 02:49:34 PM...the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

Trying to think of a shorthand for this. Disability theater?

I favour the term "escapism therapy" myself. On at least some level, for some people, the intent is sincerely to help people come to terms with their issues.

That this subsequently gets capitalized on by others who can't resist the power rush of moral browbeating is not the fault of those who mean well.

This is why we play Rifts or Star Wars.  If you're maimed, just buy some cybernetics. 

If your character has an IQ of a potato, just RP that or I'll kick you out of the game group.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on June 29, 2024, 01:46:09 AM

Quote from: Aglondir on June 29, 2024, 01:05:26 AM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on April 13, 2024, 02:49:34 PM...the goal is the simultaneous validation of one's real experience as "enough" while still investing in the fantasized experience of transcending the limits of that experience.

Trying to think of a shorthand for this. Disability theater?

I favour the term "escapism therapy" myself. On at least some level, for some people, the intent is sincerely to help people come to terms with their issues.

That this subsequently gets capitalized on by others who can't resist the power rush of moral browbeating is not the fault of those who mean well.

Unless "those who mean well" are certified therapists their intentions are irrelevant.

Apparently, the women of 6E have all become blobs with legs. I mean, I'm fat, but I sure as Hell don't want to PLAY a fat adventurer. This art is, quite frankly, fucking godawful. Whomever approved this should be tarred and feathered. I sincerely, and with all my heart, hope this new edition crashes and burns and WotC has to eat a massive bag of dicks.

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on July 03, 2024, 12:25:52 AMApparently, the women of 6E have all become blobs with legs. I mean, I'm fat, but I sure as Hell don't want to PLAY a fat adventurer. This art is, quite frankly, fucking godawful. Whomever approved this should be tarred and feathered. I sincerely, and with all my heart, hope this new edition crashes and burns and WotC has to eat a massive bag of dicks.

I agree the art is terrible. That being said, I've coached rugby for 20 years and have seen some seriously tough, athletic "blobs with legs" who will flat run your ass over. Men and women both. Meanwhile, some of the least athletic and frankly softest (in terms of physical courage) players I ever coached were body builders. The general rule in my experience is greater vanity correlates to lesser ability.

So while I have no issue with fat adventurers, I don't find them much fun to look at. Unless we get art of one stiff arming an orc in the face!

Which is my real gripe about the art so far - static, boring, cute. No drama, no conflict, no tension, no menace. It evokes kittens and hugs and fresh-baked cookies, not adventure.

Quote from: Festus on July 03, 2024, 11:30:51 PM

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on July 03, 2024, 12:25:52 AMApparently, the women of 6E have all become blobs with legs. I mean, I'm fat, but I sure as Hell don't want to PLAY a fat adventurer. This art is, quite frankly, fucking godawful. Whomever approved this should be tarred and feathered. I sincerely, and with all my heart, hope this new edition crashes and burns and WotC has to eat a massive bag of dicks.

I agree the art is terrible. That being said, I've coached rugby for 20 years and have seen some seriously tough, athletic "blobs with legs" who will flat run your ass over. Men and women both. Meanwhile, some of the least athletic and frankly softest (in terms of physical courage) players I ever coached were body builders. The general rule in my experience is greater vanity correlates to lesser ability.

So while I have no issue with fat adventurers, I don't find them much fun to look at. Unless we get art of one stiff arming an orc in the face!

Which is my real gripe about the art so far - static, boring, cute. No drama, no conflict, no tension, no menace. It evokes kittens and hugs and fresh-baked cookies, not adventure.

I played a little rugby and I think I know what you mean. In fairness, you can usually spot the difference between "fat but tough" and just "fat". It's a bit hard to explain it beyond "you know it when you see it", a bit like the difference between "fat" and "thicc" I suppose. Just like how you can draw a strong character (male or female) without making them look either ugly or like a body builder.

Like you say, though, the intent here was clearly not to illustrate either strong of tough characters. The vibe they're going for is "happy fantasy fun times", and I'm genuinely not sure why.  This aesthetic isn't popular in any other medium, and I find it hard to believe that the market research said this is what zoomers like. Even their biggest competitor in Pathfinder 2, which also has pretty lackluster art, seems to mostly still be trying to make the characters look heroic.

I like anuthor Andy Weir's description of main characters.  They're people you want to be, or sleep with.

I'm playing games to do cool stuff I can't actually do. 

Being out of shape is not on my to-do list. 

Quote from: Insane Nerd Ramblings on July 03, 2024, 12:25:52 AMApparently, the women of 6E have all become blobs with legs. I mean, I'm fat, but I sure as Hell don't want to PLAY a fat adventurer. This art is, quite frankly, fucking godawful. Whomever approved this should be tarred and feathered. I sincerely, and with all my heart, hope this new edition crashes and burns and WotC has to eat a massive bag of dicks.

The people making this new tragic pile of crap have no idea what D&D is about, or even what adventure in general is all about. Monsters are becoming just someone different that you might invite over for tea & biscuits and adventurers just sit around all day getting fat and worrying about their love lives. The art in this version looks like it belongs in the joke GURPS supplement BURPS Folks- yes you too can play an ordinary loser like the ones you see every day at work, while shopping, or across the gaming table! A lot of the pieces actually look like corporate schlock with an AI fantasy veneer. I believe uninspiring would be rather charitable. This is what you get when you put fat lesbians in charge of the art. Any female who is depicted remotely fit & attractive is "oversexualized" even if shown wearing a nun's habit.