I've seen a lot of debates recently about the over-crowding of the OSR space with too many retroclones & adjacent games that essentially duplicate not only the original game(s), but also each other.  An advantage of this, of course, is that with pretty much any of the systems listed here, you can plug and play adventures with any of the others.  But we all have our preferences, for various reasons.  So I was curious to see what those of you who play these games think.  Like me, many of you probably play or mash-up several of these, but for the purposes of the poll, just pick a favorite.

I was originally only going to include straight retroclones, but since Shadowdark has gotten a lott of attention recently and claims to be more OSR than 5e, I put that in here.  C&C has been around forever and has also gained renewed life and attention with the OGL fiasco and its acquisition to the Gygax material so I put that in here as well.  If you're unsatisfied with the array of options here, make your own poll.

Thanks!

Greetings!

Persimmon! Good morning, my friend!

I voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 10:35:14 AMI voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

What's interesting and exceptional about ShadowDark?  I've read a number of the games listed, and all of them looked pretty good, but I have to admit I haven't seen any that immediately hit me with a "THIS is why people should play THIS retroclone rather than any of the others" reaction.

(Anybody who knows the answer to this for any of the other games listed is also invited to chime in, of course.)

That said, I'm going to indulge my inner bootlicking sycophant and mention that Fantastic Heroes and Witchery probably also deserves addition to the list above, for sheer volume of gonzo material in one book.

I like the elegance of Swords & Wizardry. I can run AD&D/OSRIC material in it with little to no conversion. So there's tons of great material to use. I can also pull rules and ideas from AD&D/OSRIC/DMG for stuff not covered by S & W, if I so choose. It's a very versatile, light, and fun system.

I voted White Box FMAG, it's light weight but complete, fun and versatile, there's also a ton of fully compatible games in other genres besides fantasy and I can use stuff from AD&D/OSRIC/DMG with little to no conversion.

Thanks for adding comments; that's what really interests me here.  Why pick one over the others?

As for Shadowdark, its appeal is utterly incomprehensible to me, as I've said before.  It's essentially a house-ruled mash-up of several other games with virtually nothing distinctive or original from what I've seen in previews, test play videos and unboxings.  But, for whatever reasons, it's a hot item now so I felt it deserved to be included in here despite my personal feelings towards it.

Unfortunately Greg Gillespie's Dragonslayer hasn't dropped yet, so I couldn't include it.  From what I've heard and seen so far, it's another set of mashed-up house rules, but there are a few tweaks and additions that I think I'll enjoy.  Plus, Greg's design and play philosophy align fairly well with my own.  So we'll see in a few weeks when it's available.

Out of the ones listed, I'd probably run OSE, which is what I voted.  I can see being swayed to Swords & Wizardry or Basic Fantasy in the right circumstances.

However, expanding the list, I'd run either Rules Compendium or ACKS over any of those.  Dragonslayer would certainly be in the mix.  And realistically, I'll run my own thing over those.  So the chances of me ever getting around to running one on the list is fairly remote.

I don't buy the argument, despite the above, that the market is over-saturated. That's the argument of someone already in the field that wants to cut out competition or someone who wants everyone to settle down to writing adventures for [insert favorite system here] so that they can use those.  Or someone confusing other people training players for them versus growing the hobby.  It doesn't matter if the list was half the size, and it wouldn't matter if the list was twice as long.  They are all niche--in a good way.

Old School Essentials for me.   Its fun, easy to run and the players have a great time.

And unlike 5e it actually feels like Dungeons and Dragons.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on January 12, 2024, 01:54:52 PM
Out of the ones listed, I'd probably run OSE, which is what I voted.  I can see being swayed to Swords & Wizardry or Basic Fantasy in the right circumstances.

However, expanding the list, I'd run either Rules Compendium or ACKS over any of those.  Dragonslayer would certainly be in the mix.  And realistically, I'll run my own thing over those.  So the chances of me ever getting around to running one on the list is fairly remote.

I don't buy the argument, despite the above, that the market is over-saturated. That's the argument of someone already in the field that wants to cut out competition or someone who wants everyone to settle down to writing adventures for [insert favorite system here] so that they can use those.  Or someone confusing other people training players for them versus growing the hobby.  It doesn't matter if the list was half the size, and it wouldn't matter if the list was twice as long.  They are all niche--in a good way.

Oops, I forgot about ACKS.  My bad there.  I considered Hyperborea, which I like a lot, but I considered it a bit too niche given how tied it is to the setting. 

And note that I'm just relaying what I saw on other boards regarding market saturation.  Personally I'm willing to check lots of things out to see if they suit me.  And my moods change so I'll usually be playing a couple different systems at any time.  Right now it's S&W and C&C.

I voted for OSE, but honestly I'd be happy to play any of them.  Glad to hear that "Hyperborea" was at least considered, because that's a great game and I immediately noticed its absence from the list.  But I understand your reasoning in leaving it off.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 12, 2024, 10:53:26 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 10:35:14 AMI voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

What's interesting and exceptional about ShadowDark?  I've read a number of the games listed, and all of them looked pretty good, but I have to admit I haven't seen any that immediately hit me with a "THIS is why people should play THIS retroclone rather than any of the others" reaction.

(Anybody who knows the answer to this for any of the other games listed is also invited to chime in, of course.)

Greetings!

Good Morning, my friend!

Well, I think that ShadowDark is fantastic, and awesome.

(1) Layout and Presentation: Easy to Read and USE. Everything is quick, simple, and brutal. Rules descriptions, easy and quick. Monster entries--again, easy, quick, and brutal. Spell descriorions and rules--easy, quick, and brutal.

(2) Artwork--The art is black and white, and very cool in showing the characters, creatures, and themes of the game.

(3) The game rules "Chassis" is simple, and stripped down. It is all very easy to read, understand, and use. This then, serves as a strong foundation that a GM can *add* any kind of thing or sub-system to the basic rules system, and the game still runs fine.

(4) ShadowDark has embraced some of the more modern game developments--like ascending AC, as well as several key elements from 5E, such as Advantage and Disadvantage.

(5) The above-mentioned element makes selling the game system to modern players that are familiar with 5E a snap, painless and effortless.

(6) No Fucking BS Woke politics are in the game.

(7) The entire basic game is all in ONE BOOK. Simple to read and use, for GM's and Players alike.

( Related to the above, is also an awesome feature--the author, Kelsey Dionne, has been inspired by half a dozen different systems and rules, in addition to AD&D and 5E. She has smoothly combined and polished these elements to make something special with ShadowDark.

These are all aspects of ShadowDark that I enjoy, which is why I think that the game is fantastic and awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 03:20:45 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 12, 2024, 10:53:26 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 10:35:14 AMI voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

What's interesting and exceptional about ShadowDark?  I've read a number of the games listed, and all of them looked pretty good, but I have to admit I haven't seen any that immediately hit me with a "THIS is why people should play THIS retroclone rather than any of the others" reaction.

(Anybody who knows the answer to this for any of the other games listed is also invited to chime in, of course.)

Greetings!

Good Morning, my friend!

Well, I think that ShadowDark is fantastic, and awesome.

(1) Layout and Presentation: Easy to Read and USE. Everything is quick, simple, and brutal. Rules descriptions, easy and quick. Monster entries--again, easy, quick, and brutal. Spell descriorions and rules--easy, quick, and brutal.

(2) Artwork--The art is black and white, and very cool in showing the characters, creatures, and themes of the game.

(3) The game rules "Chassis" is simple, and stripped down. It is all very easy to read, understand, and use. This then, serves as a strong foundation that a GM can *add* any kind of thing or sub-system to the basic rules system, and the game still runs fine.

(4) ShadowDark has embraced some of the more modern game developments--like ascending AC, as well as several key elements from 5E, such as Advantage and Disadvantage.

(5) The above-mentioned element makes selling the game system to modern players that are familiar with 5E a snap, painless and effortless.

(6) No Fucking BS Woke politics are in the game.

(7) The entire basic game is all in ONE BOOK. Simple to read and use, for GM's and Players alike.

( Related to the above, is also an awesome feature--the author, Kelsey Dionne, has been inspired by half a dozen different systems and rules, in addition to AD&D and 5E. She has smoothly combined and polished these elements to make something special with ShadowDark.

These are all aspects of ShadowDark that I enjoy, which is why I think that the game is fantastic and awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Does one need to convert the old D&D modules or can they be run as is?

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 03:20:45 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 12, 2024, 10:53:26 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 10:35:14 AMI voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

What's interesting and exceptional about ShadowDark?  I've read a number of the games listed, and all of them looked pretty good, but I have to admit I haven't seen any that immediately hit me with a "THIS is why people should play THIS retroclone rather than any of the others" reaction.

(Anybody who knows the answer to this for any of the other games listed is also invited to chime in, of course.)

Greetings!

Good Morning, my friend!

Well, I think that ShadowDark is fantastic, and awesome.

(1) Layout and Presentation: Easy to Read and USE. Everything is quick, simple, and brutal. Rules descriptions, easy and quick. Monster entries--again, easy, quick, and brutal. Spell descriorions and rules--easy, quick, and brutal.

(2) Artwork--The art is black and white, and very cool in showing the characters, creatures, and themes of the game.

(3) The game rules "Chassis" is simple, and stripped down. It is all very easy to read, understand, and use. This then, serves as a strong foundation that a GM can *add* any kind of thing or sub-system to the basic rules system, and the game still runs fine.

(4) ShadowDark has embraced some of the more modern game developments--like ascending AC, as well as several key elements from 5E, such as Advantage and Disadvantage.

(5) The above-mentioned element makes selling the game system to modern players that are familiar with 5E a snap, painless and effortless.

(6) No Fucking BS Woke politics are in the game.

(7) The entire basic game is all in ONE BOOK. Simple to read and use, for GM's and Players alike.

( Related to the above, is also an awesome feature--the author, Kelsey Dionne, has been inspired by half a dozen different systems and rules, in addition to AD&D and 5E. She has smoothly combined and polished these elements to make something special with ShadowDark.

These are all aspects of ShadowDark that I enjoy, which is why I think that the game is fantastic and awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

I have no feelings about the creator either way though it's nice to hear she keeps the real life BS out of the game. 
As for the game itself, to me it's just watered-down OSE with mechanics from other systems crammed into it.  And since there's not a single new mechanic from 5e that I like, that's another bunch of strikes against it for me. 

But it's all good; just really interested in seeing what people prefer and why.  So if you guys are enjoying it, game on. 

Quote from: BadApple on January 12, 2024, 04:08:45 PM

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 03:20:45 PM

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser on January 12, 2024, 10:53:26 AM

Quote from: SHARK on January 12, 2024, 10:35:14 AMI voted for ShadowDark. It is a fantastic game.

What's interesting and exceptional about ShadowDark?  I've read a number of the games listed, and all of them looked pretty good, but I have to admit I haven't seen any that immediately hit me with a "THIS is why people should play THIS retroclone rather than any of the others" reaction.

(Anybody who knows the answer to this for any of the other games listed is also invited to chime in, of course.)

Greetings!

Good Morning, my friend!

Well, I think that ShadowDark is fantastic, and awesome.

(1) Layout and Presentation: Easy to Read and USE. Everything is quick, simple, and brutal. Rules descriptions, easy and quick. Monster entries--again, easy, quick, and brutal. Spell descriorions and rules--easy, quick, and brutal.

(2) Artwork--The art is black and white, and very cool in showing the characters, creatures, and themes of the game.

(3) The game rules "Chassis" is simple, and stripped down. It is all very easy to read, understand, and use. This then, serves as a strong foundation that a GM can *add* any kind of thing or sub-system to the basic rules system, and the game still runs fine.

(4) ShadowDark has embraced some of the more modern game developments--like ascending AC, as well as several key elements from 5E, such as Advantage and Disadvantage.

(5) The above-mentioned element makes selling the game system to modern players that are familiar with 5E a snap, painless and effortless.

(6) No Fucking BS Woke politics are in the game.

(7) The entire basic game is all in ONE BOOK. Simple to read and use, for GM's and Players alike.

( Related to the above, is also an awesome feature--the author, Kelsey Dionne, has been inspired by half a dozen different systems and rules, in addition to AD&D and 5E. She has smoothly combined and polished these elements to make something special with ShadowDark.

These are all aspects of ShadowDark that I enjoy, which is why I think that the game is fantastic and awesome!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Does one need to convert the old D&D modules or can they be run as is?

Greetings!

I have not yet converted any old D&D modules for ShadowDark. I imagine using them though would be very easy.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK