The "Pathfinder as OSR?" object got me to thinking -- the discussions at this site that revolve around definitions. It's like we have the First Council of Nicaea once a month, without the resulting consensus (though I think we have the definition of "retroclone" pegged).
So, in the spirit of metaphor, what exactly IS the church of D&D, historically (using the Christian church as our metaphor)? Moreover:
What represents orthodoxy?
Was 0e the "Catholic Church?"
Who's the Martin Luther?
Is there a Holy Trinity, and, if so, what is it's nature?
What are the "10 commandments"?
Where is Mt. Sinai?
Most importantly:
Who are the apostates? (and where are they, because I'll be they have the best parties.):-)
No. Just No. :D
I guess you could say that the official D&D is Catholicism.
Well, when you think about it Pathfinder is clearly Anglican.
The OSR is back to basics Protestantism.
Palladium Fantasy is Islam.
White Wolf is Hinduism. I could probably make an argument for some kind of new age pop culture narcissim instead.
GURPS is Buddhism.
The trinity is Armor Class, Hit Dice / Levels, Vancian Casting three sacred cows that are one.
Mount Sinai is Lake Geneva Wisconsin.
The Prophets are Gary Gygax, Dave Arneson, and by official cannon rejected by all but the official line Monty Cook and Jonathon Tweet.
The Saints are the great host of other authors. The OSR rejects all that came after the schism of 1989.
The apostates are Ken St Andre, Steve Perrin, Marc Miller, Jeff Dee and others.
Quote from: David Johansen;902569GURPS is Buddhism.
With all those rules, the only choice for GURPS-like religion is Judaism, bruh. :D
Quote from: CRKrueger;902563No. Just No. :D
Oh, come on. This is right up your alley.:-)
More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
Easy. Anyone who likes a game you don't like.
To hear some people talk.
Quote from: Ravenswing;902580Easy. Anyone who likes a game you don't like.
To hear some people talk.
I more meant "satanic", ala the Slaytanic Wehrmacht carries more weight in that department than any biblical reference. It does beg the question of who is the pope of rpg's though. I would add that DitV/AW is the Mormons.
:D
I played D&D 3rd edition as my first game. For me that would be Catholicism, all previous editions pre-Nicean proto-cults.
3.5 was the east/west split, not too different but the devil's in the detail. As a 13-14 year old I was impressed with many of the changes.
I always thought both editions were very rules heavy, and when I got back into roleplaying years later I sought out other esoteric religions, Savage World's easy access new age wicca and Ars Magica's appealing yet complex Buddhism. I haven't actually played D&D for years, but for me the simplified OGL knockoffs like True20 and similar are the reformation. Out with a ton of old orthodoxies and in with new interpretations of old mechanics.
D&D 5e is the counter-reformation. Having taken a lesson from the many branched OGL movement D&D found a way to accommodate new believers and old.
Quote from: David Johansen;902569White Wolf is Hinduism. I could probably make an argument for some kind of new age pop culture narcissim instead.
WW isn't Hinduism and is definitely 'new age'. I started reading Mage and recognized huge chunks of it as stuff I was hearing from my crystal-hugging, Lazaris-following girlfriend at the time.
I don't see why people find this hard to understand. Pathfinder and the OSR are a result of when hobbyists have a legal path and the technical tools to create and distribute what they want. Opposed to being beholden to the economic interests of a single company.
The Pundits shrills aside, there is no barrier to anybody here to publish or distribute what they think a D&D work ought to be. Will one barrier, you have to be willing to the work of writing. Is RPGNow/DriveThru being a dick, there is Lulu, and so on.
Now what about Paizo and Pathfinder, they have been consistently the #1 or #2 sellers for the past couple of years. Aren't Pathfinder fans beholden to Paizo's economic interests? Not really, as everything that Pazio does is based on the OGL. While much of their adventures are product identify, they didn't stop adding to the open content of their actual rules. If you look at their reference document at (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/) they have added much of the text of their rules-heavy product to it. So if for whatever reason Pazio and company goes off the deep end, the somebody can pick up where they left off.
However that is digressing from the point. It doesn't matter if there is a OSR Taliban, or a Church of AD&D. They don't have the power or the means to enforce their will. The only serious threat facing the hobby and industry is what kind of community standard RPGNow/DriveThru imposes for publishing. Even then there are limits to their reach as the technology they use is available to all.
Finally because of the foundation of the OSR rest on the OGL. It will eventually have everything that can be created under the sun for classic D&D. The same for the 3.X rules. This will include worshippers of Appendix N, the Church of AD&D, and people who for whatever fucking lunatic reason view themselves as the OSR Taliban. It is the nature of true freedom to be messy. But there is no machinery of state for of any of the lunatic fringe to seize. Nobody, not the Pundit, not me, will be able to name one person that was unable to publish what they wanted and brand themselves as part of the OSR.
Traveller is Buddhism: It's all meaningless, and then you die.
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
I don't know who Satan would be, but I know that Ron Edwards is the self proclaimed OSR Messiah (or at least John The Baptist). That he has been rejected, just like Jesus was, just lends credence to his claim.
Quote from: Simlasa;902585WW isn't Hinduism and is definitely 'new age'. I started reading Mage and recognized huge chunks of it as stuff I was hearing from my crystal-hugging, Lazaris-following girlfriend at the time.
WW may be = to The Secret, then. How come we haven't seen those books on Ophra's book club?
V:tM is the Dianetics of rpg's. :p
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan (...)
It is the silent voice certain people hear. It whispers "write another D&D-clone, world
needs it, people
want it".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjtQu-EW0AAthfe.jpg)
And people think I'm silly... :p
Go forth and roll 10d20s and sin no more, my child. Thou art forgiven.
The gradual development of RPGs through actual play - Jesus' teachings.
OD&D - Coptic Christianity.
Basic / Classic / etc. - Various flavours of early Christianity after it's already been consolidated into a discrete religion. Nestorianism, Monophysitism, Monothelema, etc..
1st ed. AD&D - Catholicism. The massive, rather codified thing with Organised Play and whatnot.
2nd ed. AD&D - The Antipopes. It's the same thing as the other one with minor differences, created because of some political power struggle.
"3rd / 3.5th edition" - Protestantism. For some, it's a backlash against the (real or imagined) faults of Catholicism; for most it's an intellectually lazy licence to feel and act intolerably smug. "Oh, you've accepted our version of the Saviour / use Challenge Ratings and Wealth by Level guidelines? Congratulations, that means you're predestined to be saved / have a superior game!"
4th edition - Mormonism. They say they're Christians, but come on...
OSR - Quakers. (Well, the more liberal sorts of Quakers, who don't really make a big deal out of whether or not it's a subset of Protestantism.)
Of course the Holy Trinity would be the original, insuperable 3-volume set.
But the original Traveller is still about 10000% better in every possible way, so I assume it is atheism.
D&D before 3.0 is Old Testament.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902598It is the silent voice certain people hear. It whispers "write another D&D-clone, world needs it, people want it".
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjtQu-EW0AAthfe.jpg
Am I supposed to recognize that picture? D&D clones are the path of least resistance, though with the way they are spawned, comparatively, they resemble evangelical Christianity more so. Like the Herbalife finding Christ and real estate seminar, if a storefront won't do, build a warehouse.
Quote from: dragoner;902611Am I supposed to recognize that picture?
Naaaah. I asked Google about "the devil in the flesh" and here is what it gave me.
QuoteD&D clones are the path of least resistance, though with the way they are spawned, comparatively, they resemble evangelical Christianity more so. Like the Herbalife finding Christ and real estate seminar, if a storefront won't do, build a warehouse.
This comparison deserves an upvote... Were they not taken away by Powers That Be. :(
What represents orthodoxy?
Was 0e the "Catholic Church?"- I see the line of D&D from 0e to 5 as Catholicism. 5e is a polished up summary to bring the Church back to a more modern-day busy crowd.
- All the basics of D&D are orthodoxy, but there are several sects. Under the right circumstances they even attend each-others special events from time-to-time.
- It's strange in our western culture to deify people recently passed, so most of the founders including recent designers would all be saints in the Church if D&D.
- John Wick, Ron Edwards, Clint Black, Steve Perrin, anyone who decided they could either a) do D&D better or b) D&D is a terrible model and broke out in new directions... ALL Apostates. we have a LOT of Apostates.
Who's the Martin Luther?Steve Jackson (SJGames) - One could also nominate Kevin Sembieda, or Steve Perrin. RuneQuest, Palladium and GURPS all were answers to "how would you do D&D better?".
Is there a Holy Trinity, and, if so, what is it's nature?David Johansen's spot on here.
What are the "10 commandments"?1. Thou shalt have no other games before D&D.
2. Thou shalt not make unto us any graven image unless it has Boobies.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of D&D in vain.
4. Remember the Game Day and keep it Fun.
5. Honor thy DM and thy fellow player.
6. Thou shall not ruin the game or the Game Day.
7. Thou shall not over commit to games.
8. Thou may steal the game to make unto new games that follow the commandments and are like unto D&D.
9. Thou shall not bear false witness to the game, the DM, the players or the mechanics.
10. Thou shall not covet the DM's world, nor his campaign notes, nor his books, nor his works, nor his devices.
Where is Mt. Sinai?Once again David Johansen's answers are spot on here. I would want to co-author the History of the Church of D&D with him.
On other religions...- Pathfinder as Anglican makes perfect sense so (once again) I agree with the enlightened David Johansen.
- World of Darkness/Chronicles of Darkness are the new age Goth cult. Some of the most recent members are more horror purists and find all the black make-up to be pretentious.
- The OSR is currently broken into two faiths. The Taliban as identified by the Pundit and The Reformers as witnessed by The Pundit and the list of OSR/Clone/Old School designers just making stuff they like and proselyting play.
- Miniatures Wargaming is the Judaism of RPGs. Model Railroading would likely be Zoroastrianism (perhaps with sects around modeling in general).
- Estar somehow self-identified as the Scientologist when he showed up to the thread drunk and angry and went on some nonsensical marble-mouthed tirade about how the aliens gave us Open and we can publish anywhere now. (I still love you Estar!)
I can't read this thread sober.
D&D is not a religion, and many of the woes in the fan community come from the fact that people try to make it an idol. :)
(Ph.D. in theology here, so I have Credentials. ;) )
Quote from: trechriron;902615The Taliban as identified by the Pundit and The Reformers as witnessed by The Pundit and the list of OSR/Clone/Old School designers just making stuff they like and proselyting play.
I assure you, sir that your last moments on the material plane will resemble this scene:
(http://wh40kart.im/_images/f107f60f1c95603280b5100fd569926b.jpg)
...and the last thing you're gonna hear will be:
BROTHER APOTHECARY FISTO, HARVEST THIS GUY'S GENESEED, THEN DUMP HIS CORPSE INTO DREADNOUGHT'S CARAPACE - HE DESERVES TO SERVE THE EMPRAH FOR THE ETERNITY, AND HIS LEGACY TO SURVIVE HIS MORTAL SHELL.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902614This comparison deserves an upvote... Were they not taken away by Powers That Be. :(
The admins giveth, and the admins taketh away.
That being said, Shinto, Confucianism? Where do they lay, what games are they?
Quote from: dragoner;902631The admins giveth, and the admins taketh away.
I cracked a smile. It doesn't happen... No wait, I happen to smile pretty often these days. WTF is wrong with this site, it's supposed to be no-jokin' allowed zone & shit...
QuoteThat being said, Shinto, Confucianism? Where do they lay, what games are they?
Let's think...
Shinto - hmmmm, considering that
kami are/is omnipresent, it might reside in pretty much everything, then it'd be... FATE with its "everything's an Aspect" approach. If you prefer "the ritual of old in modern world", then, hmmmm... Damn, another score for OSR, I guess.
Confucianism - I'm not sure. The strongest element of this system are relationships between groups of people - families, society... So -cons seem like the place where too look, but here's a catch: Confucianism perceives man as good. Perhaps a bit crude, raw, untaught and underdeveloped, but
good. I see no resemblance in any aspect of RPG of that fact. ;)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;902625D&D is not a religion, and many of the woes in the fan community come from the fact that people try to make it an idol. :)
(Ph.D. in theology here, so I have Credentials. ;) )
:D
Also, OD&D isn't Coptic Christianity, it's the unedited letters of Paul.
Quote from: cranebump;902576Oh, come on. This is right up your alley.:-)
Oh ok. :D
AD&D is definitely Catholicism.
- Sold in numbers dwarfing anything that came after it.
- Its books are derided by people who have never actually read them, and its rules are mocked by people who never actually followed them.
- Almost everything that came after is influenced by it, either as a modification, extension, reaction or outright antithesis.
- Has a bunch of young ignorant punks who make fun of it so they can be cool and relevant.
- Its priests/DMs have apparently touched a lot of people in the bad place as children.
- Good DMs encourage you to think, bad ones railroad you into Orthodoxy.
WotC D&D is the Episcopal Church - a compromise generally taking the weakest parts of everything.
4th Edition, which as has been said, is Mormonism, the only thing D&D is the name on the cover.
White Wolf games are a New Age/Wiccan stew. Even the followers who think they're edgy satanic magicians are probably harmless, as long as you don't get close enough for skin afflictions and STDs.
Palladium is a Cult of Personality, Tent Revivalist Show headed by a brilliant, creative maniac and his followers never stop sending him money when asked.
Most Forge games are Protestant.
- A continued, eternal reaction against imagined or no longer existing offenses.
- The tenets of faith are completely made up arcane terminology none of them ever agreed on.
- For some reason, they consider themselves arrogantly superior.
- Anyone who doesn't like their games needs to be saved.
- Those who have been saved are reborn into the way of New Mechanics.
Some of the latest crop of New School Narrative Shitshows are Unitarian Universalism - No definition means anything, make up whatever you want and call it whatever you want, it's all good. The rest are Identitarian, ie. The Cult of Identity Politics.
and because you gotta put them in somewhere...
BRP is Judaism, 99% of people pick and choose what they want from the various sects.
GURPS is Islam, it's better than anything that came before it, doesn't even acknowledge anything that came after it, and while the various sects may war amongst themselves, they will join to fight the infidel. :D
Re D&D 4e as Mormonism: ouch, I may have to leave the church over that one.
Re trenchiron: I'm blushing :D
Re GURPS as Islam: that would make me a radical with an explosive vest right? (not so much a shot at Islam as a confession of my own radical bent)
But now I must ask: If GURPS is Islam then what is the Islamic equivalent of GURPS Vehicles?
Quote from: David Johansen;902684But now I must ask: If GURPS is Islam then what is the Islamic equivalent of GURPS Vehicles?
Yeah but you have to make it first with GURPS Vehicles, which is a form of terrorism if ever I've seen one. :D
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
Synnibar(sp?)? FATAL?
Quote from: Omega;902687Synnibar(sp?)? FATAL?
FATAL isn't a cool Satan though. Now I can see Synnibar, Rifts, and Shadowrun being the pagans, but maybe more like the biker gang.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;902637:D
Also, OD&D isn't Coptic Christianity, it's the unedited letters of Paul.
Would that make the Gospel equivalent Chainmail, or the oral tradition of Gygax and Arneson, then?
I actually have noted this difference between older and newer forms of D&D--the emphasis on the tradition vs. that on the written word. :)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902633I cracked a smile. It doesn't happen... No wait, I happen to smile pretty often these days. WTF is wrong with this site, it's supposed to be no-jokin' allowed zone & shit...
*Blows up thread with Islamo-GURPS car bomb.*
:D
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;902637:D
Also, OD&D isn't Coptic Christianity, it's the unedited letters of Paul.
I thought OD&D was the Stone Age shamanism? :cool:
Quote from: Omega;902702I thought OD&D was the Stone Age shamanism? :cool:
Bronte's
story-game ... :p that's the Neolithic shamanism like at Göbekli Tepe.
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;902689Would that make the Gospel equivalent Chainmail, or the oral tradition of Gygax and Arneson, then?
I actually have noted this difference between older and newer forms of D&D--the emphasis on the tradition vs. that on the written word. :)
CHAINMAIL is second temple Judaism.
Don't forget, the epistles of Paul were written before the Gospels were written... or at least before the earliest versions we've discovered so far...
Quote from: dragoner;902688FATAL isn't a cool Satan though.
Ok, I'll bite.
Satan is
Mark Rein.Hagen.
- He infected the hobby with women (long and slow:
womeeeeeeeeeeen)
- He remade vampires from feral beasts into skinny goth homos
- He [plenty of stuff]...
- ...and then he took backers' money and convinced everyone he doesn't exist
Satan.
;)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902736Ok, I'll bite.
Satan is Mark Rein.Hagen.
- He infected the hobby with women (long and slow: womeeeeeeeeeeen)
- He remade vampires from feral beasts into skinny goth homos
- He [plenty of stuff]...
- ...and then he took backers' money and convinced everyone he doesn't exist
Satan.
;)
I agree completely. I still liked the first Vampire game, played the hell out of it...
Quote from: trechriron;902745I still liked the first Vampire game, played the hell out of it...
Me too. I miss those long discussions concerning various aspects of oWoD:Vampire's lore. It was fun to argue who and which gen the progenitor of Assamites was, whether Caine lives, and what's the correct pronunciation of "Tzimisce" (in local language it sounds damn similar to "Three Teddy-bears").
...
I miss those times a lot.
Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;902720CHAINMAIL is second temple Judaism.
Don't forget, the epistles of Paul were written before the Gospels were written... or at least before the earliest versions we've discovered so far...
Good point. That would imply the AD&D books as the equivalent ... and one of the reasons this comparison is very silly. :D
That said, I will admit to occasionally comparing my Hero System 6E set to my three-volume copy of the Summa Theologiae. :)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902748I miss those times a lot.
As long as it isn't me being called Satan. I never was into Vampire, my gaming group tried 2300, wanted to like it more than we did, then settled into a T2K game for a while. Played in another group where we played Deadlands, CoC, and then Rifts. Then back war games for a while. Funny thing about D&D, my sister introduced me to it, and in the beginning, me and my friends considered it a "girl game" in the late 70's.
Quote from: Matt;902609Of course the Holy Trinity would be the original, insuperable 3-volume set.
But the original Traveller is still about 10000% better in every possible way, so I assume it is atheism.
Pretty great analogy. And like any rational Atheist, one can acknowledge the immense contributions the 3LBBs made to the gaming world.
Quote from: dragoner;902763As long as it isn't me being called Satan. I never was into Vampire, my gaming group tried 2300, wanted to like it more than we did, then settled into a T2K game for a while. Played in another group where we played Deadlands, CoC, and then Rifts. Then back war games for a while. Funny thing about D&D, my sister introduced me to it, and in the beginning, me and my friends considered it a "girl game" in the late 70's.
Well, hmmm... You certainly have a taste. Are you also a man of wealth, have you been around for a long, long year?
BTW, you wouldn't stole many a man's soul and faith? :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7muCRio2nQ
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902773Well, hmmm... You certainly have a taste. Are you also a man of wealth, have you been around for a long, long year?
BTW, you wouldn't stole many a man's soul and faith? :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7muCRio2nQ
Good video, my Oma was born in Laibach. ;)
Except, let me introduce you to hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pATX-lV0VFk
Taste yes, wealth no, middle class. Stole non existent things? Ha! I guess faith is trust but still I put no stock in that.
Quote from: Premier;902608The gradual development of RPGs through actual play - Jesus' teachings.
OD&D - Coptic Christianity.
Basic / Classic / etc. - Various flavours of early Christianity after it's already been consolidated into a discrete religion. Nestorianism, Monophysitism, Monothelema, etc..
1st ed. AD&D - Catholicism. The massive, rather codified thing with Organised Play and whatnot.
2nd ed. AD&D - The Antipopes. It's the same thing as the other one with minor differences, created because of some political power struggle.
"3rd / 3.5th edition" - Protestantism. For some, it's a backlash against the (real or imagined) faults of Catholicism; for most it's an intellectually lazy licence to feel and act intolerably smug. "Oh, you've accepted our version of the Saviour / use Challenge Ratings and Wealth by Level guidelines? Congratulations, that means you're predestined to be saved / have a superior game!"
4th edition - Mormonism. They say they're Christians, but come on...
OSR - Quakers. (Well, the more liberal sorts of Quakers, who don't really make a big deal out of whether or not it's a subset of Protestantism.)
This is the most bang on yet (IMO of course)
Quote from: dragoner;902590Traveller is Buddhism: It's all meaningless, and then you die.
You're almost correct on this, you just need to add "
during character creation" to the end of your sentence.
Quote from: Gwarh;902834You're almost correct on this, you just need to add "during character creation" to the end of your sentence.
The beauty of it is
I didn't need to. I think they even sell t-shirts with that on it, part of the magic.
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/132/957/887edc976d6e9370913e620806491ac4_large.jpg?1346094464)
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
Lorraine Williams?
Arduin = The Dead Sea Scrolls. I mean, its cool and all, but wtf does it mean?
Judges Guild = the guy at the back of the Sermon responding to "blessed are the cheese makers" by saying, "It's not meant to be taken literally. It applies to all manufacturers of dairy products."
Quote from: dragoner;902578More importantly, who is Satan, and the pagans?
The pagans are clearly the indie devs, headed by FATE and Evil Hat.
Quote from: camazotz;902977The pagans are clearly the indie devs, headed by FATE and Evil Hat.
We should crush them with our Gygaxian boot and force them to use dice with numbers on them.
Quote from: Madprofessor;902980We should crush them with our Gygaxian boot and force them to use dice with numbers on them.
The suggestion to use standard 1d6 in place of FUDGE dice is pretty common in FATE based games. ;)
Quote from: cranebump;902554What represents orthodoxy?
3rd edition.
Quote from: cranebump;902554Was 0e the "Catholic Church?"
No that would be 3rd. Orthodoxy is pathfinder.
0e was the early teachings
1st and 2nd are early Christendom and heresies (80 AD to 300 AD)
3rd is the Catholic Church
Pathfinder is orthodoxy
4th is Anglicanism
5th is Lutheranism
OSR is Islam
Storygaming is new-age
(yes, flame bait!)
Quote from: cranebump;902554Is there a Holy Trinity, and, if so, what is it's nature?
Yes, the players handbook, the DMG and the monster manual
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902983The suggestion to use standard 1d6 in place of FUDGE dice is pretty common in FATE based games. ;)
Don't try to protect the infidels with your regular d6s proxy, lest we suspect you of possessing a baggy of funky symbol dice used for star wars miniatures and wharhammer 3e! True believers use gamescience polyhedrals! Preferably ugly ones (though any precision edged gem dice will do in a pinch).
...er - If we're going to play the church of D&D, can I be an inquisitor? Clerics are the best class.
Quote from: Madprofessor;902991wharhammer 3e!
Watch it brah, watch it... I become highly unpredictable around people who claim there were more than 2 official editions of WHFRP.
...I'm not saying bodies are gonna pile up, but they are gonna pile up.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]162[/ATTACH]
HAIL SIGMAR!
Quote from: Madprofessor;902991wharhammer 3e!
Watch it brah, watch it... I become highly unpredictable around people who claim there were more than 2 official editions of WHFRP.
...I'm not saying bodies are gonna pile up, but they are gonna pile up.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]162[/ATTACH]
HAIL SIGMAR!
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902997Watch it brah, watch it... I become highly unpredictable around people who claim there were more than 2 official editions of WHFRP.
...I'm not saying bodies are gonna pile up, but they are gonna pile up.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]162[/ATTACH]
HAIL SIGMAR!
Oh, And you just had to blow it, didn't you?
I mean, One, What say he meant Fantasy Roleplay?
He could have meant Fantasy Battle .....
And two, Inquisitors in D&D?
Are they really anything against the ones in Warhammer?
(Not to mention those in 40K. :) )
EDIT:
...Your Attachment seem invalid?
Is that a bug?
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902997Watch it brah, watch it... I become highly unpredictable around people who claim there were more than 2 official editions of WHFRP.
...I'm not saying bodies are gonna pile up, but they are gonna pile up.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]162[/ATTACH]
HAIL SIGMAR!
"'Round these parts, laddy, Sigmar's just a pimple on Ulrich's frostbitten arse" - from the Teutogen People's Front.
I'm going to disagree and argue that Satan is other, non-gaming pursuits. I was tempted to say girls. As one of my store owning friends warned me when I opened my shop, "girlfriends are the enemy of my business."
No, "non-gaming pursuits" are just a rather sad and pathetic version of Atheism.
Quote from: David Johansen;903088I'm going to disagree and argue that Satan is other, non-gaming pursuits. I was tempted to say girls. As one of my store owning friends warned me when I opened my shop, "girlfriends are the enemy of my business."
Get 'em to paint minis and show 'em skirmish wargames.
You know, there is such a thing as stretching a metaphor too far.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902574With all those rules, the only choice for GURPS-like religion is Judaism, bruh. :D
Ever heard Buddhist monks debate philosophy?
Quote from: Skarg;903874Ever heard Buddhist monks debate philosophy?
I refuse to answer that without the presence of my lawyer (last known location: prisoner/drug smuggling, Bangkok prison, block C)!
Who are the Hermeticists/Gnostics?
Quote from: mightyuncle;903889Who are the Hermeticists/Gnostics?
Gnostics? Tekumel. ;}
Perfect
Quote from: JesterRaiin;902736Ok, I'll bite.
Satan is Mark Rein.Hagen.
- He infected the hobby with women (long and slow: womeeeeeeeeeeen)
- He remade vampires from feral beasts into skinny goth homos
- He [plenty of stuff]...
- ...and then he took backers' money and convinced everyone he doesn't exist
Satan.
;)
For me, Satan would be either Justin Achilli or Martin Ericsson.
Here's my take on the subject, since it's all tongue-in-cheek anyway...
Kriegspiel: Stone Age Shamanism
H.G. Wells' Little Wars: Historical Paganism
Miniature Wargaming: Old-Testament Judaism
Chainmail: Second Temple Judaism
OD&D: Early Christianity as depicted in the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles, and Paul's Letters
Basic D&D: Coptic Christianity and other pre-Nicene forms of Christianity
AD&D 1e: Catholic Church after Nicaea but before the East-West split
AD&D 2e: Eastern Orthodox Church
D&D 3e/3.5: Protestant Reformation
D&D 4e: Mormonism
D&D 5e: Modern Catholicism
Pathfinder: American Evangelical Protestantism
OSR: Seventh Day Adventists and Armstrong Churches
And the others....
GURPS: Islam
Early White Wolf: Polytheistic Reconstructionist Neopaganism
Achilli-era/Revised Edition White Wolf: LaVeyan Satanism
Chronicles of Darkness: New Age/Wicca Neopaganism
Martin Ericsson's "One World of Darkness": The Satanic Cult from Bible Black (it's horrific, difficult to watch, and full of dicks)
Cyberpunk 2020: Atheism and Agnosticism
Japanese RPG's: Shinto
Big Eyes Small Mouth: Serenitism (a fringe internet religion based on Sailor Moon)
Quote from: JesterRaiin;903899Gnostics? Tekumel. ;}
Why, thank you! I rather like that, myself! :)
Quote from: chirine ba kal;904114Why, thank you! I rather like that, myself! :)
Thank you, sir. I have my moments. ;)
Quote from: Doc Sammy;903910For me, Satan would be either Justin Achilli or Martin Ericsson.
Some context?
Quote from: mightyuncle;903889Who are the Hermeticists/Gnostics?
Oh, this has to be the Old School Renaissance--possessors of the "secret knowledge" of what the founders 'really' intended but only handed down to a few handpicked disciples, rather than to the unworthy masses. :D
Quote from: JesterRaiin;904134Some context?
Achilli was in charge of much of the later oWoD; Ericsson appears to be the one in charge of the current revision/revival plans. :)
My only knowledge of Achilli's work is his pseudonymous editing of Ravenloft 3E, where he didn't seem to do much more than force a D&D setting that was heavy on reserving information for the DM into the WoD "player-friendly main book, tiny screenbook with secrets for the DM" publication model, as well as mandate the Witch-Hunter prestige class as part of the latter. :)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;904165Achilli was in charge of much of the later oWoD; Ericsson appears to be the one in charge of the current revision/revival plans. :)
My only knowledge of Achilli's work is his pseudonymous editing of Ravenloft 3E, where he didn't seem to do much more than force a D&D setting that was heavy on reserving information for the DM into the WoD "player-friendly main book, tiny screenbook with secrets for the DM" publication model, as well as mandate the Witch-Hunter prestige class as part of the latter. :)
I see.
I thought there was some piece of RPG history I missed, but this? I wouldn't call that very
Satanish. ;)
To say I hate the themes and metaplot of Revised Edition oWoD (much of which was introduced by Achilli) is an understatement.
Quote from: JesterRaiin;904167I see.
I thought there was some piece of RPG history I missed, but this? I wouldn't call that very Satanish. ;)
Bear in mind, I am about as 'outside' the WoD as someone who started gaming in the 90s is likely to be. I've never played the games, I've never paid money for a single WoD book (I've gotten some PDFs as promos or giveaways at DTRPG), and while I've absorbed things through osmosis or browsing the books, I have no real knowledge of the deeper thematics and behind-the-scenes operations.
In short, I have no grounds to bury or to praise Achilli and Ericsson. :)
Quote from: Doc Sammy;904433To say I hate the themes and metaplot of Revised Edition oWoD (much of which was introduced by Achilli) is an understatement.
Well, it's more along the lines of "Inquisition" rather than Satan, I think, but ya, oWoD never ceases to deliver something worthy of a complaint. ;)
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;904439In short, I have no grounds to bury or to praise Achilli and Ericsson. :)
Same here, same here. Well, kind of. I don't fancy newer/newest iterations of WoD, but it's more along the lines of rolling eyes and walking away, rather than actively fighting it...