11) The Anti-Orientalist monk - Gets massive bonuses against classes and creatures displaying Orientalism.
12) The ADHD Mage - Aka the sorcerer
13) The Post Traumatic Stress Paladin - Triggered by demons. So heroic, when not cowering.
14) The Postmodernist Bard - With a few choice words, can deconstruct the abilities of monsters and other classes.
15) The Your Body, My Choice Cleric - You don't get to choose what spells the cleric casts on you. They're a divine mandate.
16) The Handicapable Warlock - You can choose either sickly and bedridden, or a quadruple amputee. Fortunately, your pacts compensate for your physical shortcomings! And yes, by not embracing your limitations, you must choose an evil alignment.
17) The Bipolar Berserker - Sometimes you sulk and refuse to do anything useful, sometimes you're so full of energy you literally chew on the scenery.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 06, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
5e players have already accepted a long list of absurd facts:

-Only an Asian player should be allowed to play an Asian character.
-Orcs are black people, so if your orcs are evil you think black people are evil
-If your dark elves have black skin, you think black people are evil.
-If you have slavery in your game, you support slavery
-If 50% of your NPCs aren't female, you are a sexist
-if 50% of your NPCs aren't gay, you are a homophobe

Can I be informed as to when I accepted these? Any time in the last six years I would guess, but I am curious.

Quote from: Aglondir on September 03, 2021, 01:41:52 PM
What's up with the underwater tuba guy?

I thought that was "examples of worthless character classes".

A "wheelchair-accessible dungeon" should be one of two things:
1) A location in which there is a ramp for carts of supplies to get to a lower level. But the rest of the dungeon has stairs and such.
2) A dungeon in which a ramp is placed, which probably goes around a lot of corners, getting 1 degree steeper every time it does, eventually becoming a straight vertical drop.

Sorry, but in my day (damn, I sound like a greybeard, but whatever), ramps happened when stairs collapsed, and ended in 10ft pits with spikes.

Quote from: WillyDJ on September 07, 2021, 05:24:56 AM

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 06, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
5e players have already accepted a long list of absurd facts:

-Only an Asian player should be allowed to play an Asian character.
-Orcs are black people, so if your orcs are evil you think black people are evil
-If your dark elves have black skin, you think black people are evil.
-If you have slavery in your game, you support slavery
-If 50% of your NPCs aren't female, you are a sexist
-if 50% of your NPCs aren't gay, you are a homophobe

Can I be informed as to when I accepted these? Any time in the last six years I would guess, but I am curious.

You are assumed to have accepted those by WotC. If you don't believe us - go to any of the other forums and post that you don't support any of these ideas and merely watch what happens.

We'll see you back here in a few.

@Pat - you and I need to make the Newly Unearthed Arcana for 5e...

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 06, 2021, 01:25:00 PM
...
You say "accepted" but that is not the correct word for uniformly describing the reactions to the bullshit you mention. Many either reject or simply ignore this nonsense rather than accepting it. And they still go on playing 5e...

This shouldn't have to be spelled out, but:

No one is saying that if you already have the 5e books, that you should stop playing 5e D&D.

The point is now that you know that WOTC has openly taken the side of the totalitarian left, why would you continue to buy their products, and keep giving money to someone that hates you?

Hmm... Got me thinking about doing a small source book to emulate real world disabilities or character flaws if you will for RPGs. These could be through environmental factors, birth, injury or even a curse (remember it's a fantasy game). Of course, this isn't new per se, but it could be good for inclusivity purposes.

It could be done like a random roll thing, or a player could choose a specific character flaw. And a bit like vampire in the 90s, they could get some points to put into something new, or beef up another skill to compensate. Now, as it would be for the OSR, there would be no high-fantasy magical contrivances allowed. It just wouldn't work.

Of course, this would offend quite a few of the twitter crowd for being tone deaf. But it really shouldn't. One, it's only a fantasy game. Two, I apply this standard to myself. I mean, I suffer from severe depression. I consider it to be a personal flaw or disability. And I'm alright with calling it a personal character flaw. Why, because it is. But it does'nt make me any less of a person. Same can be said, for other people with disabilities. They are no less than anyone else.

It's about realism not ridicule. If people found the 'old' lingo too offensive. You could easily change the words to be more euphemistic or palatable. Then you could sell it on drivethru and donate the proceeds to a charity for disabled people.

Edit: PS - I think this a far better way to portray disabilities in a low fantasy game. Sure, they can go the uber magical floating disk route (for very high fantasy) or just play a normal character. But with something like this, one would have an option to play it emulating semi-real life. Assuming they wanted to of course.

Quote from: Jaeger on September 07, 2021, 01:21:06 PM
This shouldn't have to be spelled out, but:

No one is saying that if you already have the 5e books, that you should stop playing 5e D&D.

The point is now that you know that WOTC has openly taken the side of the totalitarian left, why would you continue to buy their products, and keep giving money to someone that hates you?

I get what you are saying and agree with you.  However, I want to point out that I went from not buying to not playing over the course of about a year, because it went from "OK, WotC is putting out even more stupid stuff but I can work with what I already have," to "not wasting anymore mental time and effort on their products."  For me, continuing to spend time and effort on their products would be the classic "sunk cost" fallacy.  I've been a lot happier now that I'm doing my own thing.  It's more work up front, but now it is paying off in my gaming.  There are some other short-term versus long-term considerations in there, too.  How do I know how bad WotC is going to be a year from now?

Everyone has to draw that line for themselves (on any optional activity, really).  However, I am saying that some people really should stop playing WotC games, if only to quit worrying about it.

Quote from: Jaeger on September 07, 2021, 01:21:06 PM
No one is saying that if you already have the 5e books, that you should stop playing 5e D&D.

The point is now that you know that WOTC has openly taken the side of the totalitarian left, why would you continue to buy their products, and keep giving money to someone that hates you?

I buy products based on what is fun for me and my friends to play, not based on the politics of the creators. I'll generally buy from either left-leaning or right-leaning authors.

Quote from: Jaeger on September 05, 2021, 06:13:37 PM
For those who say: "So what? Not a big Deal!"

My response would be: "So you agree with them that there are five lights now? Ok..."

The five lights reference (from Star Trek TNG) applies directly to the discussion here. Pundit has claimed basic untruths like these:

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 03, 2021, 04:35:00 PM
The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible.

I checked this. It is completely false. But when I pointed this out, he instead came back and accused me of making "motte and bailey argument" and made more claims.

What bugs me most is that in the world of Internet outrage, the truth doesn't matter. If someone points out a falsehood, then they're the problem and need to be attacked more, because clearly they're not loyal enough to the cause.

I have fun playing 5E, and while I may be liberal, I don't conform to what some posters are claiming here, like hedgehobbit's list of absurd facts.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 06, 2021, 01:19:38 PM
5e players have already accepted a long list of absurd facts:

-Only an Asian player should be allowed to play an Asian character.
-Orcs are black people, so if your orcs are evil you think black people are evil
-If your dark elves have black skin, you think black people are evil.
-If you have slavery in your game, you support slavery
-If 50% of your NPCs aren't female, you are a sexist
-if 50% of your NPCs aren't gay, you are a homophobe

As for the combat wheelchair -- I've been playing D&D 5E for years, and I never would have heard of the combat wheelchair if it weren't for the noise being made over it here on theRPGSite.

https://www.google.com/search?q=D%26D+combat+wheelchair&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj2vZ6K5O3yAhUDCjQIHU4qDY4Q_AUoBHoECAEQBg&biw=1229&bih=608&dpr=1.56

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
...
I buy products based on what is fun for me and my friends to play, not based on the politics of the creators. I'll generally buy from either left-leaning or right-leaning authors.
...

I have fun playing 5E, and while I may be liberal, I don't conform to what some posters are claiming here, like hedgehobbit's list of absurd facts.
...

To be clear:

You do not buy into the SJW agenda.

And you ignore politics, sjw or otherwise, entirely as a value judgement in your purchases of rpg material.

Would that be accurate to your position?

Quote from: Jaeger on September 07, 2021, 05:29:45 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 03:56:37 PM
...
I buy products based on what is fun for me and my friends to play, not based on the politics of the creators. I'll generally buy from either left-leaning or right-leaning authors.
...

I have fun playing 5E, and while I may be liberal, I don't conform to what some posters are claiming here, like hedgehobbit's list of absurd facts.
...

To be clear:

You do not buy into the SJW agenda.

And you ignore politics, sjw or otherwise, entirely as a value judgement in your purchases of rpg material.

Would that be accurate to your position?

Saying "the SJW agenda" is too vague to define. Some people here have accused me of being an SJW at times. I don't agree with any of hedgehobbit's list - but they sound more like parody or hyperbole to me. I'm happy to give positions on particular issues.

And yeah, I ignore politics of the creator in my purchases of rpg material.

Common sense from Clownfish.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysD6BBxml0

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
Saying "the SJW agenda" is too vague to define. Some people here have accused me of being an SJW at times. I don't agree with any of hedgehobbit's list - but they sound more like parody or hyperbole to me.

For the *years* you have been discussing these issues on this very forum, for you to pretend that "the SJW Agenda" is *vague* paints you as being pretty obtuse don't you think?

I've already stated the litmus test for hedgehobbit's list: Go post something contrary to any of these on the other RPG forums and watch what happens. How hyperbolic is it? Or are you just being ignorant for the purposes of bad-faith discourse? This is why people have accused you of being an SJW, since the level of cognitive dissonance required to make such a statement is kinda ridiculous, which is a very prominent... no... *mandatory* trait to be an SJW. (Which I'm not sure you're an actual SJW... more like a chameleon that hangs around with them and picked up their behaviors.)

Normies even talk about this bullshit...

https://www.wired.com/story/dandd-must-grapple-with-the-racism-in-fantasy/

literally dozens of blogposts and articles referencing "problematic" issues for SJW's with their perception of D&D and its history.

I mean WotC cites it right here:
https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/diversity-and-dnd

What is hyperbolic about these claims? They're not necessarily specific, but hyperbolic? Not at all. Again - go to any place where the SJW's gather and post any of those claims and you'll get mobbed. Do it rather than pretend we're just wrong, or being hyperbolic.

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 06:05:07 PMI'm happy to give positions on particular issues.

Speaking for myself, I don't personally care what you, or anyone else's politics are as long as you're discussing things in good faith. I'll grant that some people are incapable or at least have a lot of problems putting themselves in another's shoes for the purposes of understanding their position. But the point of the discussion is to figure that out.

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 06:05:07 PMAnd yeah, I ignore politics of the creator in my purchases of rpg material.

And maybe this is what blinds you to the things being discussed here? Just saying it's a possibility.

Quote from: jhkim on September 07, 2021, 06:05:07 PM
And yeah, I ignore politics of the creator in my purchases of rpg material.

I do too, right up to the moment where the creator makes it impossible to do so any longer.  That exact moment varies, but the stimulus is always coming from them, not me.