Quote from: Vidgrip on September 05, 2021, 11:11:45 AM
Thank you, jhkim, for inserting some actual facts into the discussion. Facts are more helpful than raving vitriol. That being said, I think dungeon crawling or wilderness trekking in a wheelchair is ridiculous. I'd never allow it in my D&D game or play at a table that did.'''

So what are the actual facts? Are there wheelchairs in D&D books nowadays or no?

I'm really tired of this...

So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

Edited to add: it really bugs me now that I read it again that they say the magic used for the creation of the wheelchair isn't even first level, and then want to throw out the defining portion of how dispel magic works. If it's under 3rd level, it's dispelled, period.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Hell, just add in Iron Man suits into D&D, and call the inclusivity there?

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 05:08:15 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Hell, just add in Iron Man suits into D&D, and call the inclusivity there?

Wouldn't rust monsters be a problem?

Quote from: GriswaldTerrastone on September 05, 2021, 05:11:02 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 05:08:15 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Hell, just add in Iron Man suits into D&D, and call the inclusivity there?

Wouldn't rust monsters be a problem?

My best answer to this would be "Why yes, yes they would!"

As a note, I found the updated chair doc, with the fatigue thing. Reading. Laughing. Fuck no.

"Beginning at 6th level, your experience with chronic pain means you have a pain threshold higher than most and know how to manage it in ways that work best for you – whether these methods be mental or physical. Your pain hasn't subsided, you don't hurt any less, but your pain management has now also become useful in combat."

Uh no. The people I know personally who claim to suffer from chronic pain and fatigue are too busy whining about it to actually harness shit in combat, and wouldn't even begin to know how to fight. Even if they did, they are not in any condition to do battle.

I mean whatever makes these folks feel better about themselves, okay, this game is all about the wish fulfillment and I recognize that but they can definitely find another table with this drivel. I don't want to play with this nonsense.

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 05:08:15 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Hell, just add in Iron Man suits into D&D, and call the inclusivity there?

Artificer does it with a subclass in Tasha's Crock of Excrement.

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 05:19:58 PM
"Beginning at 6th level, your experience with chronic pain means you have a pain threshold higher than most and know how to manage it in ways that work best for you – whether these methods be mental or physical. Your pain hasn't subsided, you don't hurt any less, but your pain management has now also become useful in combat."

Uh no. The people I know personally who claim to suffer from chronic pain and fatigue are too busy whining about it to actually harness shit in combat, and wouldn't even begin to know how to fight. Even if they did, they are not in any condition to do battle.

I mean whatever makes these folks feel better about themselves, okay, this game is all about the wish fulfillment and I recognize that but they can definitely find another table with this drivel. I don't want to play with this nonsense.

Not to go too far off-topic, but this is entirely correct. Chronic pain geneally reduces the ability to deal with acute pain; it does not increase it except in certain cases of uncommon neural damage.

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:22:50 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 05:08:15 PM

Quote from: HappyDaze on September 05, 2021, 05:03:55 PM

Quote from: Dropbear on September 05, 2021, 04:59:10 PM
So Google is only turning up the combat wheelchair when I search for chronic fatigue barbarian. Not sure how real and present it actually is. I thought I might read it to see if it was a joke but I'm not finding it anywhere except as mentioned in Pundit's video.

I took the time to read the Combat Wheelchair doc. I don't see anything wrong with it if that's what other folks want at their table. I kinda take issue with a lot of the doodads you can attach and make yourself better than any able person could be without a combat wheelchair, so I don't know why abled people wouldn't want to get them too? Beats a horse... And then there's the fact that they expressly say dispel magic absolutely will not work on it. So it's a big nope for my table. Too much of a Mary Sue magic item and character creator for my tastes.

All this kinda makes me wonder about the actual text for this barbarian though.

For equality,, anything that can be attached to the chair should be able to be attached to functional legs. Sure, it'll be ridiculous, but that barrier has already been breached.

Hell, just add in Iron Man suits into D&D, and call the inclusivity there?

Artificer does it with a subclass in Tasha's Crock of Excrement.

There's apparently one in this doc too, so I spoke too soon about that lol.

I'm honestly all for people playing the way they want to. There's a table for this stuff somewhere, and I am not going to grind them down for taking it to that table. Just not mine is all I would ask. I don't care to play this way.

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 04, 2021, 01:48:23 PM
... The combat wheelchair isn't causing WotC to go woke ...

Because WOTC is already there.


FWIW - We saw a combat wheelchair art in Ravenloft. And there was a big social media push around candlekeep (documented by Pundit – read the links!) about the wonderful wheelchair accessible dungeon therein.

And while jhkim does point out that there are ladders and climbing in the 'wheelchair accessible' dungeon...  You need to understand the mindset of these people for why that dungeon is still considered 'wheelchair accessible':
You can find multiple arguments on another forums/social media, with people claiming that in D&D ladders and climbing will pose no issues whatsoever for a Centaur PC... 

That is the mentality we are dealing with, what more needs to be said?

IMHO we will see combat wheelchair art in almost every WOTC book going forward.

For those who say: "So what? Not a big Deal!"

My response would be: "So you agree with them that there are five lights now? Ok..."

The Fact is that the mere concept of the "combat wheelchair" in D&D is so absurdly ridiculous that in any sane world the idea would be laughed out of the hobby. (Yes, even for an elfgame, it is utterly ridiculous.)

The fact that it isn't, and that you have groups defending it to the point that it has made its way into the flagship game of the hobby is a Big Red Flag.

They are literally now able to get you to accept the patently absurd.

What will you accept next?

Quote from: palaeomerus on September 05, 2021, 03:42:11 AM
S.O.C.O.M. Mobile All Terrain Fire Support Wheel Chair

His class?  AMERICA!!!!!  FUCK YA!!!!!

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on September 05, 2021, 11:47:13 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 04:50:02 AM
every book after Candlekeep has had combat wheelchair art,

  Technically true, I believe, but framed in a confusing way--there's only been one new book since Candlekeep, Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, and Ravenloft's always been a bit anachronistic to begin with. In fact, wheelchairs in Ravenloft go back to I10 Ravenloft II: The House on Gryphon Hill.

   It's definitely gotten a lot of cheering from the Enlightened Gamers, but there is arguably insufficient evidence as to how much impact it's had on the official D&D product line as of yet. And that requires one to care about WotC and official D&D products to begin with.

Their upcoming book, the one based on the college setting where your characters are a "hot mess" and you go to the prom, also has it.