Quote from: Jam The MF on September 03, 2021, 08:16:53 PM
How nice of the villains, to accommodate heroes with handicaps.

FFG one ups them a bit on this one. When they introduced a trans character to Arkham Horror, the flavor text made a clear point to show that the evil Lovecraftian horrors didn't dead name her. Trying to wipe out all life on Earth is less evil than using the wrong pronouns.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 03, 2021, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 03, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
If Thompson got her original combat wheelchair added to official D&D, then yes, I would be wrong. Can you give a link or reference that the original combat wheelchair was added to official D&D?

The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible.

I'm 99% sure this is pure bullshit. I don't have Candlekeep Mysteries yet, but from reviews, the only thing is one of the Candlekeep authors is a wheelchair user whose dungeon design is a pyramid that has ramps rather than stairs (just like historical pyramids did).

I'm going to Pacificon this weekend and I'll see if I can pick up a copy to confirm.

Quote from: jhkim on September 04, 2021, 12:21:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 03, 2021, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 03, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
If Thompson got her original combat wheelchair added to official D&D, then yes, I would be wrong. Can you give a link or reference that the original combat wheelchair was added to official D&D?

The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible.

I'm 99% sure this is pure bullshit. I don't have Candlekeep Mysteries yet, but from reviews, the only thing is one of the Candlekeep authors is a wheelchair user whose dungeon design is a pyramid that has ramps rather than stairs (just like historical pyramids did).

I'm going to Pacificon this weekend and I'll see if I can pick up a copy to confirm.

Why are you trying to pretend that the Combat Wheelchair is not a thing that was UNIVERSALLY PRAISED BY WoTC, it's employees, EVERY GAMING MEDIA, all of SJW Twitter and Tumblr, and many common websites? That the ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT has united to try to ram this down every gamer's fucking throat?

https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/12/22225381/dungeons-dragons-candlekeep-mysteries-wheelchair-accessible

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2021/01/dd-candlekeep-features-wotcs-first-wheelchair-accessible-dungeon.html

https://boundingintocomics.com/2021/02/12/dungeons-dragons-to-introduce-first-wheelchair-accessible-adventure/

https://hypebeast.com/2021/1/dungeons-dragons-wheelchair-accessible-candlekeep-mysteries-news

https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/931-jen-kretchmer-teases-her-candlekeep-mysteries

https://nerdist.com/article/dungeons-and-dragons-wheelchair-accessible-adventure/

https://boingboing.net/2021/01/19/dds-new-candlekeep-mysteries-includes-the-first-quest-for-adventurers-in-wheelchairs.html

Every one of these plus 37000 other results talk about Candlekeep, WoTC, D&D, and the fucking Combat Wheelchair.

You want to pretend this isn't because a fake fucking poser with massively disproportionate influence in a communist social media network made a Totalitarian Manifesto disguised as a rules supplement? That this being in Candlekeep and Critical Role and will now be FORCED TO APPEAR in every art and every dungeon of every new WoTC book FOR EVER?

What the fuck are you actually even trying to claim? "It's not a big deal"?

It's obviously a very fucking big deal. I have, right now, people on twitter trying to destroy my career and have me blacklisted from gaming forever (and would probably cheer and publicly gloat if I was literally murdered) BECAUSE I dare to question the fucking Combat Wheelchair.

So yes, it's a big fucking deal. It's a group of FUCKING STALINISTS trying to FORCE their views not just on the rest of gaming but on ALL of Society, to LITERALLY seek to create a Harrison Bergeron Society. Given ongoing power over enough time, they will eventually try to make a prison-worthy Hate Crime Offense for you to be able to run faster than other people.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 04, 2021, 12:58:05 PMWhat the fuck are you actually even trying to claim? "It's not a big deal"?

It's obviously a very fucking big deal. I have, right now, people on twitter trying to destroy my career and have me blacklisted from gaming forever (and would probably cheer and publicly gloat if I was literally murdered) BECAUSE I dare to question the fucking Combat Wheelchair.

It's not a big deal. The combat wheelchair isn't causing WotC to go woke and the people trying to cancel you were trying to do so for years already. The combat wheelchair is accepted because 5e is woke and 5e has always been woke.

When the 5e PH says, "You can play as a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances" it mean that the GM must accept ANY character concept as valid and may not provide any hindrances to that character based on those choices.

There is no difference between 5e saying "You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender." and saying that you don't need to be confined to the notions of what is healthy or viable for an adventurer.

1d4 old school combat wheelchair variants:

1. Your combat wheelchair is a 4'x4' gelatinous cube, modified to have a seat. It's trained to not eat the person while they're sitting in it, and it's really nice that any monster that touches your chair gets paralyzed (save allowed), but there's a 20% chance per night that an uncontained wheelchair will try to eat its rider while they're sleeping.

2. Your combat wheelchair is a golem, composed of a random collection of household items like lamps, wagon wheels and whisks. There's a 1% cumulative chance per combat the golem goes berserk, and starts driving full speed around the area, cutting it very close when it comes to cliffs or doorways (natural 1 on d20 means a miss), and frequently spinning out (1 in 4 chance per round of being dazed).

3. Your combat wheelchair is a juggernaut. This it the D&D juggernaut, which means it's a chair-shaped lump of roughly carved stone, with an animal head (1d6: 1 horse, 2 dragon, 3 kobold, 4 wolf, 5 squid, 6 faceless human) and 1d6 protrusions that look like random animal parts such as hooves, claws, or beaks. It's slow to get up to speed (1" move + 1" move/round when moving in a straight line), but very hard to stop (current speed in inches on d6 for breaking down doors). The projections are also able to shoot out and strike creatures within 1" for 1d4 damage.

4. Your combat wheelchair is just a wheelchair. If you're extremely healthy and fit and have no encumbrance, you might be able to go up stairs, just like in all those Youtube videos.

Quote from: Pat on September 04, 2021, 02:30:35 PM
1d4 old school combat wheelchair variants:

1. Your combat wheelchair is a 4'x4' gelatinous cube, modified to have a seat. It's trained to not eat the person while they're sitting in it, and it's really nice that any monster that touches your chair gets paralyzed (save allowed), but there's a 20% chance per night that an uncontained wheelchair will try to eat its rider while they're sleeping.

2. Your combat wheelchair is a golem, composed of a random collection of household items like lamps, wagon wheels and whisks. There's a 1% cumulative chance per combat the golem goes berserk, and starts driving full speed around the area, cutting it very close when it comes to cliffs or doorways (natural 1 on d20 means a miss), and frequently spinning out (1 in 4 chance per round of being dazed).

3. Your combat wheelchair is a juggernaut. This it the D&D juggernaut, which means it's a chair-shaped lump of roughly carved stone, with an animal head (1d6: 1 horse, 2 dragon, 3 kobold, 4 wolf, 5 squid, 6 faceless human) and 1d6 protrusions that look like random animal parts such as hooves, claws, or beaks. It's slow to get up to speed (1" move + 1" move/round when moving in a straight line), but very hard to stop (current speed in inches on d6 for breaking down doors). The projections are also able to shoot out and strike creatures within 1" for 1d4 damage.

4. Your combat wheelchair is just a wheelchair. If you're extremely healthy and fit and have no encumbrance, you might be able to go up stairs, just like in all those Youtube videos.

Make it a d8 with the following additions...

5. Your combat wheelchair is a well-trained donkey that doesn't panic in confined underground areas. Roll 1d6 again, if 4+ you have a custom saddle that allows you to employ full leverage for weapon attacks and lifting.

6. You do not have combat wheelchair, a wandering high level cleric restored the use of your legs in exchange for a tithe; reduce your starting or current gold by 10%.

7. As 6 above, but the cleric felt pity for you and restored your legs at no charge. Local sick people aware of the healing routinely try to touch you hoping that some of the cleric's residual magic will rub off on them.

8. As 6 above, but your sleep is regularly disturbed by dreams of the cleric's god imploring you undertake some task (ex. converting to the cleric's faith, becoming a cleric of the same faith if your wisdom is high enough or undertaking a quest or pilgrimage associated with the faith) that do not subside until you have followed the god's command.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 04, 2021, 12:58:05 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 04, 2021, 12:21:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 03, 2021, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 03, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
If Thompson got her original combat wheelchair added to official D&D, then yes, I would be wrong. Can you give a link or reference that the original combat wheelchair was added to official D&D?

The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible.

I'm 99% sure this is pure bullshit. I don't have Candlekeep Mysteries yet, but from reviews, the only thing is one of the Candlekeep authors is a wheelchair user whose dungeon design is a pyramid that has ramps rather than stairs (just like historical pyramids did).

I'm going to Pacificon this weekend and I'll see if I can pick up a copy to confirm.

Why are you trying to pretend that the Combat Wheelchair is not a thing that was UNIVERSALLY PRAISED BY WoTC, it's employees, EVERY GAMING MEDIA, all of SJW Twitter and Tumblr, and many common websites? That the ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT has united to try to ram this down every gamer's fucking throat?

I haven't said anything about SJW Twitter or Tumblr. Your claim was that the Combat Wheelchair is official D&D and specifically that it is in Candlekeep Mysteries. I picked up a copy of Candlekeep Mysteries today while playing at Pacificon.

1) Sara Thompson's combat wheelchair is not in the book.

2) There are no wheelchairs of any kind in the book - combat or otherwise, as far as I can tell.

3) The adventures are not generally wheelchair accessible. There are stairs in most of the 17 adventures. Even "The Canopic Being" - by wheelchair-using author Jennifer Kretchmer - isn't generally wheelchair accessible. There are ramps inside the pyramid, but there are points that require using a ladder and climbing.


I haven't read the links that you posted yet, but I never claimed anything about what was happening in SJW Twitter or Tumblr or such. Your point about Candlekeep Mysteries is simply false.

If there are zero wheelchairs in official D&D, but there is a bunch of positive noise on Twitter and Tumblr, that sounds to me like WotC is simply telling certain people online whatever they want to hear, while making virtually no change to their official publications.

S.O.C.O.M. Mobile All Terrain Fire Support Wheel Chair

Quote from: hedgehobbit on September 04, 2021, 01:48:23 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 04, 2021, 12:58:05 PMWhat the fuck are you actually even trying to claim? "It's not a big deal"?

It's obviously a very fucking big deal. I have, right now, people on twitter trying to destroy my career and have me blacklisted from gaming forever (and would probably cheer and publicly gloat if I was literally murdered) BECAUSE I dare to question the fucking Combat Wheelchair.

It's not a big deal. The combat wheelchair isn't causing WotC to go woke and the people trying to cancel you were trying to do so for years already. The combat wheelchair is accepted because 5e is woke and 5e has always been woke.

When the 5e PH says, "You can play as a male or female character without gaining any special benefits or hindrances" it mean that the GM must accept ANY character concept as valid and may not provide any hindrances to that character based on those choices.

There is no difference between 5e saying "You don't need to be confined to binary notions of sex and gender." and saying that you don't need to be confined to the notions of what is healthy or viable for an adventurer.

There is a huge difference between saying "you can have any sort of characters you want in your campaign" and "you MUST create a campaign setting that reflects modern 21st century leftist theory of 'diversity' with the appropriate quotas, all our products will essentially demand that, and we will not let you get away from it".

Quote from: jhkim on September 05, 2021, 02:50:11 AM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 04, 2021, 12:58:05 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 04, 2021, 12:21:44 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 03, 2021, 04:35:00 PM

Quote from: jhkim on September 03, 2021, 10:47:20 AM
If Thompson got her original combat wheelchair added to official D&D, then yes, I would be wrong. Can you give a link or reference that the original combat wheelchair was added to official D&D?

The wheelchair is in Candlekeep, and EVERY dungeon for official D&D from Candlekeep onwards has been wheelchair-accessible.

I'm 99% sure this is pure bullshit. I don't have Candlekeep Mysteries yet, but from reviews, the only thing is one of the Candlekeep authors is a wheelchair user whose dungeon design is a pyramid that has ramps rather than stairs (just like historical pyramids did).

I'm going to Pacificon this weekend and I'll see if I can pick up a copy to confirm.

Why are you trying to pretend that the Combat Wheelchair is not a thing that was UNIVERSALLY PRAISED BY WoTC, it's employees, EVERY GAMING MEDIA, all of SJW Twitter and Tumblr, and many common websites? That the ENTIRE ESTABLISHMENT has united to try to ram this down every gamer's fucking throat?

I haven't said anything about SJW Twitter or Tumblr. Your claim was that the Combat Wheelchair is official D&D and specifically that it is in Candlekeep Mysteries. I picked up a copy of Candlekeep Mysteries today while playing at Pacificon.

1) Sara Thompson's combat wheelchair is not in the book.

2) There are no wheelchairs of any kind in the book - combat or otherwise, as far as I can tell.

3) The adventures are not generally wheelchair accessible. There are stairs in most of the 17 adventures. Even "The Canopic Being" - by wheelchair-using author Jennifer Kretchmer - isn't generally wheelchair accessible. There are ramps inside the pyramid, but there are points that require using a ladder and climbing.


I haven't read the links that you posted yet, but I never claimed anything about what was happening in SJW Twitter or Tumblr or such. Your point about Candlekeep Mysteries is simply false.

If there are zero wheelchairs in official D&D, but there is a bunch of positive noise on Twitter and Tumblr, that sounds to me like WotC is simply telling certain people online whatever they want to hear, while making virtually no change to their official publications.

This is the nice little motte and bailey argument you're setting up. What are you trying to actually prove? Wizards has cheered the wheelchair ceaselessly, it has appeared on their Twitch shows, every book after Candlekeep has had combat wheelchair art, every leftist games media is publishing it, and literally thousands of wheelchair-minis that will mostly never sell have been created all as sacrifice on the altar of Leftist dementia.

So what you're trying to claim is "yes, the flames are surrounding the entire house but so far no one has been burnt alive"? 
You're literally the "this is fine" meme, except we all know you don't believe it. You're a cheerleader for this bullshit and you would piss your pants with joy if the Combat Wheelchair could be made obligatory in every game session everywhere, forever. So all you're doing here is pure sophistry at trying to suggest that what is clearly a massive social movement of ENFORCED SPEECH is nothing anyone should be allowed to resist.

As a disabled person I find the combat wheelchair and the fatigue barbarian to be an insult to the disabled. I do not and never will care about politically correct terms I call a spade a spade.

Is the blind swordsman/archer/martial artist part of this same line of thinking? I know they were considered cook back when I was a kid (and Daredevil still is cool). OTOH, the villain from the Will Smith Wild West movie was never cool.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 04:37:53 AMThere is a huge difference between saying "you can have any sort of characters you want in your campaign" and "you MUST create a campaign setting that reflects modern 21st century leftist theory of 'diversity' with the appropriate quotas, all our products will essentially demand that, and we will not let you get away from it".

If the rules say, as they do in 5e, that a character of any gender, even non-binary genders, cannot be given any special hindrance because of that gender choice, then that is 100% exactly the same as saying all 5e campaigns must reflect 21st century gender ideology. And it's only a tiny step to go from "DMs must allow characters of all 157 genders without giving them hindrances" to "DMs must accept characters with any sort of physical or mental disability without giving them hindrances".

But that still avoids the main issue. Why does it matter that people who play a woke RPG use woke character classes or woke magic items?

Thank you, jhkim, for inserting some actual facts into the discussion. Facts are more helpful than raving vitriol. That being said, I think dungeon crawling or wilderness trekking in a wheelchair is ridiculous. I'd never allow it in my D&D game or play at a table that did.

Dumb ideas for player-created classes have been around for as long as D&D has. Chronic fatigue barbarian sounds like just the latest dumb idea for a player-created class. It may spring from woke sentiments, but it doesn't signal the end of the hobby. D&D survived the dumb classes my friends and I created back in the day. It will survive this too.

Quote from: RPGPundit on September 05, 2021, 04:50:02 AM
every book after Candlekeep has had combat wheelchair art,

  Technically true, I believe, but framed in a confusing way--there's only been one new book since Candlekeep, Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft, and Ravenloft's always been a bit anachronistic to begin with. In fact, wheelchairs in Ravenloft go back to I10 Ravenloft II: The House on Gryphon Hill.

   It's definitely gotten a lot of cheering from the Enlightened Gamers, but there is arguably insufficient evidence as to how much impact it's had on the official D&D product line as of yet. And that requires one to care about WotC and official D&D products to begin with.