The Bedrock Blog's interview of Monte Cook

TristramEvans · January 31, 2013, 04:45:16 PM

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;623541Otherwise, at best its a hybrid storygame-RPG.

I don't believe in hybrids. Its either agame that allows you to play in-character or not. All other distinctions are meaningless.

Benoist · January 31, 2013, 04:46:18 PM

Quote from: TristramEvans;623572Yeah, White Wolf said much the same thing. they haven't managed to make a storygame yet.

The system stands on its own regardless of what pretentious wankery the author writes about it.

As story-telling games, WoD games fail. Hard. Which is why Ron Edwards had an axe to grind against such "incoherent" designs pretending to be story-telling games, in the first place. As traditional role playing games, most of them are great, of course.

Phillip · January 31, 2013, 04:46:43 PM

Quote from: Benoist;623561It's kind of a backhanded way of saying I'm not being reasonable when I'm making a distinction between games that are meant for role playing and immersion on one hand (role playing games) and games which are meant as means of story building and authorial collaboration on the other hand (story games).

In fact, no. It is just what it is.

Phillip · January 31, 2013, 04:49:03 PM

Quote from: estar;623564Are the actions of the players as their characters adjudicated by the referee?

Can the players only effect the setting as their characters?

If the answer is yes to both then it is a roleplaying game. If it is no to either then it is a hybrid. If it is no to both then it is something else.

That looks about right to me.

Benoist · January 31, 2013, 04:50:47 PM

Quote from: Phillip;623579In fact, no. It is just what it is.

And what it is, is a reasonable distinction. I agree.

TristramEvans · January 31, 2013, 04:50:52 PM

Quote from: Daddy Warpig;623539Storygames = group creation of a narrative. (Simming, in other words.)

"Simming"? Where are you getting that word from? That term is way to close to Simulationism, which is pretty much the opposite of storygaming.

QuoteRoleplaying game = playing in character.

I agree with that, certainly

QuoteThe part about "game"? That's where the dice comes in.

Well, not dice specifically. Freeform roleplaying is as much an RPG as anything. The difference between "roleplaying" , which covers everything from "cowboys and Indians" pretend games played as a kid to psychiatric techniques, and a "roleplaying game" I would say is simply that there are rules. Even in a freeform game these rules are there, even if unstated, to prevent one person's imagination hijaking anyone else's in the shared imaginary world.

TristramEvans · January 31, 2013, 04:54:05 PM

Quote from: jhkim;623558Phillip - maybe you aren't aware, but "simming" is jargon for online play-by-post role-playing games, where players take turns writing short sections of an ongoing story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play-by-post_role-playing_game

Ahh. I don't think thats a good term to transpose to referring to our hobby though, because of the aforementioned confusion with Simulationism, which is already a mess.

Phillip · January 31, 2013, 04:54:29 PM

Quote from: Benoist;623581And what it is, is a reasonable distinction. I agree.

But it has nothing to do with the question I posed!

Benoist · January 31, 2013, 04:56:55 PM

Quote from: Phillip;623585But it has nothing to do with the question I posed!

You haven't answered more than half my post in which I actually explained the distinction in a reasonable way either, you know? So. Is it a reasonable distinction to you, or not?

TristramEvans · January 31, 2013, 04:58:20 PM

Quote from: Benoist;623577As story-telling games, WoD games fail. Hard. Which is why Ron Edwards had an axe to grind against such "incoherent" designs pretending to be story-telling games, in the first place. As traditional role playing games, most of them are great, of course.

Yeah, totally agree.

Phillip · January 31, 2013, 05:01:22 PM

Quote from: Benoist;623586You haven't answered more than half my post in which I actually explained the distinction in a reasonable way either, you know? So. Is it a reasonable distinction to you, or not?

Did you not just post, "I agree"?

With whom? I assumed you meant with me.

We are in agreement -- unless you really mean something other than what you have typed!

Benoist · January 31, 2013, 05:02:22 PM

Quote from: Phillip;623592Did you not just post, "I agree"?

With whom? I assumed you meant with me.

I assumed as well. Now I want to make sure. Do you agree my distinction is reasonable?

TristramEvans · January 31, 2013, 05:05:29 PM

Quote from: Phillip;623585But it has nothing to do with the question I posed!

Personally, I think Hq is a great system, insofar as I think Mythic Russia is the best culture game published since the turn of the century.

Phillip · January 31, 2013, 05:10:25 PM

Quote from: Benoist;623594I assumed as well. Now I want to make sure. Do you agree my distinction is reasonable?

Again? Yes, I agree that there is a useful distinction between games that are meant for role playing and immersion on one hand and games which are meant as means of story building and authorial collaboration on the other hand.

In other words, am I playing the role of Hawkeye, or the role of James Fenimore Cooper?

Daddy Warpig · January 31, 2013, 05:11:16 PM

EDIT: Tired. Getting snippy. Gonna respond after a night's sleep.