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The 5e Wizard...initiate thy worship or thy fury!!

Started by Spinachcat, June 29, 2014, 01:51:15 AM

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Sacrosanct

#45
June 30, 2014, 10:41:42 AM
Quote from: Marleycat;762700No. Useless even then monsters have no small amount of hitpoints.

Also, if you have to roll to hit anyway with your 1d4 cantrip, why wouldn't you just use a weapon you're proficient in for 1d6 or 1d8 dmg instead?
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Omega

#46
June 30, 2014, 10:45:05 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;762706Also, if you have to roll to hit anyway with your 1d4 cantrip, why wouldn't you just use a weapon you're proficient in for 1d6 or 1d8 dmg instead?

You've fallen into their clever trap... ;)

Bill

#47
June 30, 2014, 10:46:36 AM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;762706Also, if you have to roll to hit anyway with your 1d4 cantrip, why wouldn't you just use a weapon you're proficient in for 1d6 or 1d8 dmg instead?


You could be out of ammo or lose your weapon, but the puny damage makes it questionable regardless.

I would be far more concerned with how frail a wizard is, than the cantrips.

Wizards too sturdy and or able to protect themselves too well is a potential problem, for me.

But cantrips? Not going to cause me any grief.

Sacrosanct

#48
June 30, 2014, 11:30:38 AM
Quote from: Bill;762708You could be out of ammo or lose your weapon, but the puny damage makes it questionable regardless.

I would be far more concerned with how frail a wizard is, than the cantrips.

Wizards too sturdy and or able to protect themselves too well is a potential problem, for me.

But cantrips? Not going to cause me any grief.

Same here.  The pregen mage has 8 hp at level 1, but only because of Con.  Most mages will only have 6, with a very low AC.  So it seems they are back to being able to be killed in one hit by pretty much any opponent.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

jibbajibba

#49
June 30, 2014, 11:58:06 AM
sorry disagree about the cantrip.

If I have a mage at first level who effectively has a bow with an infinite amount of arrows I have an issue with that.

If the mage's at will cantrip does as much damage as the fighter's sword that causes me an issue.

I said d4 just because it is next to useless, I say next to useless because it's not actually useless. If can ruin the concentration of another caster, it can kill an injured enemy in some circumstances, it can knock over a glass, or shatter a window, it can do lots of little small effects without it replacing an actual combat attack for all but the weakest of folks.

This is exactly what a cantrip ought to be.
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jibbajibba

#50
June 30, 2014, 12:04:17 PM
can I ask a quick saving throw question.

It is my assumption from the character sheet that your spell has a DC to save against of 10 + int bonus (+ some level based modifier).

I assume , from common sense, that the spell save will be appropriate stat modifier (int versus befuddlement, wisdom vs illusion, dx versus fireball etc) + a level modifier?

Can someone confirm that?
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Sacrosanct

#51
June 30, 2014, 12:08:10 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;762719can I ask a quick saving throw question.

It is my assumption from the character sheet that your spell has a DC to save against of 10 + int bonus (+ some level based modifier).

I assume , from common sense, that the spell save will be appropriate stat modifier (int versus befuddlement, wisdom vs illusion, dx versus fireball etc) + a level modifier?

Can someone confirm that?


The Save DC is 10+Int bonus (used to be 8 in the playtest), but prof bonus is not applied.  the save depends on the spell.  For instance, a to resist a charm person spell it's a Wis save.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

Armchair Gamer

#52
June 30, 2014, 12:09:09 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;762719can I ask a quick saving throw question.

It is my assumption from the character sheet that your spell has a DC to save against of 10 + int bonus (+ some level based modifier).

I assume , from common sense, that the spell save will be appropriate stat modifier (int versus befuddlement, wisdom vs illusion, dx versus fireball etc) + a level modifier?

Can someone confirm that?

  DCs are actually 8 + stat modifier + proficiency bonus (a universal bonus to all weapons, tools, skills, saves, etc. with which one is proficient, as well as spells, that starts at +2 and maxes out at +6).

Armchair Gamer

#53
June 30, 2014, 12:10:55 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;762720The Save DC is 10+Int bonus (used to be 8 in the playtest), but prof bonus is not applied.  the save depends on the spell.  For instance, a to resist a charm person spell it's a Wis save.

  No, proficiency bonus still applies--it's just that proficiency bonus has been upped to +2 at first level, so it looks like 10+attribute to start with. But check the back page; when your proficiency bonus increases at level 5, your spell DCs go up as well.

mcbobbo

#54
June 30, 2014, 12:11:06 PM Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 12:24:57 PM by mcbobbo
My question in the other thread got overlooked,  so I'll repeat it here...

This sheet is the first I've heard of the semi-vancian system.  What becomes of sorcerers?

I am reading that right, right?  You prepare X spells and cast what you want from those Y times, level considerations held equal?

Edit - considerations not consolidations
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

jadrax

#55
June 30, 2014, 12:18:24 PM
Quote from: mcbobbo;762723This sheet is the first I've heard of the semi-vancian system.  What becomes of sorcerers?

Sorcerers are a thing, but no idea how that thing works.

QuoteI am reading that right, right?  You prepare X spells and cast what you want from those Y times, level consolidations held equal?

Yes, that is basically how it works. But you can cast most (all?) spells using a higher level slot if you wish, for increased benefit.

Marleycat

#56
June 30, 2014, 12:30:13 PM
Quote from: Omega;762707You've fallen into their clever trap... ;)

Pretty much. Interestingly the full scoop about what will be in BASIC is up in L&L with the full spell lists. One nice tidbit is they will put 2 subraces for each in it.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Marleycat

#57
June 30, 2014, 12:35:00 PM
Quote from: mcbobbo;762723My question in the other thread got overlooked,  so I'll repeat it here...

This sheet is the first I've heard of the semi-vancian system.  What becomes of sorcerers?

I am reading that right, right?  You prepare X spells and cast what you want from those Y times, level considerations held equal?

Edit - considerations not consolidations

Not sure because they were reworked like the Bard and Warlock. What we do know is they'll have fewer spells then the wizard and a pool of spellpoints to use for metamagic or to recover spell slots.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Marleycat

#58
June 30, 2014, 12:41:11 PM
Quote from: Armchair Gamer;762721DCs are actually 8 + stat modifier + proficiency bonus (a universal bonus to all weapons, tools, skills, saves, etc. with which one is proficient, as well as spells, that starts at +2 and maxes out at +6).

So without some magic item or whatnot  the high end DC would be 19 (8+5+6).
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

jadrax

#59
June 30, 2014, 12:46:12 PM Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 02:02:45 PM by jadrax
Quote from: Marleycat;762729Interestingly the full scoop about what will be in BASIC is up in L&L with the full spell lists.

I think the jury is out on if that spell list is actually correct as its rather different to the spell list in Starter Set Exert Three. And while it is possible the core and starter will have different lists, it seems odd...

Edit: Ah, he has updated the L&L article now.
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