Arguing with myself for a moment - there is one way to do it:  some kind of bend-necked oubliette.

The wizard would be down a hole with only rock to chip at.  Let him, it'll take years.

The jailors can lob food down a bendy hole/tube that blocks line of sight.

That might work.

Still I doubt the setting even accommodates this as a change to the assumption that a wizard can be disarmed.

Quote from: Bill;763470I would generally not let a wizard cast any spell, cantrip or otherwise, while manacled.

The wizard might be able to use a contingency, or a verbal only spell if the captors screw up.

A wizard using ray of frost on a door is not much different than a big fighter kicking a door. 1-8 vs 1-2+3 or whatever.

The door is probably immune to both.

So to be clear I do see how a DM could address it as a design problem.  More interesting is the SETTING problem.

Is that fighter's damage lethal or subdual?  Does that exist in 5e?  Swap it with monk, though, and it maps logically.

Same setting problem.  If you wanted to jail a monk...

Quote from: mcbobbo;763481Same setting problem.  If you wanted to jail a monk...

1) Beat him until he smells like onions and is knocked out.
2) Lock him in a cell.

Pretty much, locking any PC in a jail cell without manacling him is a recipe for your own death.

I will admit this.  Allowing at will cantrips?  Sort of fucks up adventures like the beginning of module A4.  Then again, all I hear from people is how much they hated A4 because it was just a railroad and it was horrible game design to have an adventure where PCs are forced to be stripped of all items.

Wait, they removed V,S,M components as well? What're y'all talking about?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;763491I will admit this.  Allowing at will cantrips?  Sort of fucks up adventures like the beginning of module A4.  Then again, all I hear from people is how much they hated A4 because it was just a railroad and it was horrible game design to have an adventure where PCs are forced to be stripped of all items.

A4 was also a hell of a lot of fun to play. Granted, a railroaded capture is annoying, but the challenge of making it out of Suderham alive and getting revenge is really cool.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;763494A4 was also a hell of a lot of fun to play. Granted, a railroaded capture is annoying, but the challenge of making it out of Suderham alive and getting revenge is really cool.

Oh, I agree.  However, it seems some people (including unnamed reviewers here) who think that even if the main plot of an adventure is "escape from capture", being captured in the first place is a horrible railroad designed module.

Quote from: Opaopajr;763493Wait, they removed V,S,M components as well? What're y'all talking about?

In the play test, all spells required verbal utterance and gestures (unless they said otherwise).

In Basic they seem to have returned to the old V,S,M listing per spell.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;763494A4 was also a hell of a lot of fun to play. Granted, a railroaded capture is annoying, but the challenge of making it out of Suderham alive and getting revenge is really cool.

A4 naturally followed A3, and it was a series of convention modules, so railroading was to be expected.

I think a lot of the hate and discontent about "escape from capture" modules has to do with the ham-fisted nature of how the RPGA of that era handled it. RPGA modules would literally start with box text of, "For no apparant reason, your character decides to strip naked and walk into a jail cell while placing manacles on their wrists and feet."

Fighting, failing, and getting captured makes the set-up expected. Giving yourself up for capture without preamble just seems clumsy.

Quote from: mcbobbo;763464My first concern is the guards who bring the meals.  A 22 isn't a great mining tool either, but they don't typically lock people up without removing their handguns.

My second concern is how that unlimited d8 damage is expected not to harm the door.

I genuinely think wizards would never be jailed in a setting like this.  It could have been said before also, I mean an unspent fireball is also bad news for the jailors.  But now that skinny, long-bearded asshole is never going to stop blasting the door to his cell and there's no good way to make him stop short of leaving him trussed up all the time.  Better just to kill him.

It's like a guy with a handgun welded to his arm.  Too dangerous to try and warehouse.

Now consider that problem magnified when you toss the damn cleric in the cell. He or she doesnt even need a spellbook or anything to get a recharge from the patron by morning.

This is the age old problem of fantasy law and order. How do you curb those pesky casters.

Easiest is cells with a permanent silence. Or better yet. Cells that are anti-magic or magic dead zones. Dragon mag had the occasional articles and items for those purposes too. Magic cancelling manacles showing up at least twice.

Quote from: jadrax;763489Pretty much, locking any PC in a jail cell without manacling him is a recipe for your own death.

This is also how some modules start...

One of the old starter sets even has you end up in jail and having to escape it as part of a sort of limited pick your path walkthrough.

Quote from: mcbobbo;763464I genuinely think wizards would never be jailed in a setting like this.  It could have been said before also, I mean an unspent fireball is also bad news for the jailors.  But now that skinny, long-bearded asshole is never going to stop blasting the door to his cell and there's no good way to make him stop short of leaving him trussed up all the time.  Better just to kill him.

It's like a guy with a handgun welded to his arm.  Too dangerous to try and warehouse.

Exact issue with GURPS Magic. In a less social evolved society mages are kill on sight unless there is a special relationship with a culturally significant authority.

In a more complex society mages behavior would be guaranteed by their guild. Any non guild Mage would be kill on sight.

Remember in most fantasy RPGs the Achilles heel of mages (note the plural) is that they are a scholarly profession. They need a certain amount of stability and peace in order to learn the basics and even the advance material. For all their  power mages can be wiped out in a generation if society decided to make eat on them. By cutting of the ability to train new mages and let attrition wear down the middle level and isolating the most powerful.

Let not forget clerics as their patrons have their own proactive agenda whose power can break the rules that mages are bound by via miracles.

Don't take the above as THE answer. I posted it to illustrate that even the most unconstrained magic system can have limits imposed through roleplaying alone.

The practical effect on a PC wizard would be that they would be continually tracked down and attacked. They may win the fire few battle but there are thousands of mundanes and one of them. And if they. managed to survive it would a lonely existence of limited resources.

Quote from: Omega;763518Now consider that problem magnified when you toss the damn cleric in the cell. He or she doesnt even need a spellbook or anything to get a recharge from the patron by morning.

This is the age old problem of fantasy law and order. How do you curb those pesky casters.

Easiest is cells with a permanent silence. Or better yet. Cells that are anti-magic or magic dead zones. Dragon mag had the occasional articles and items for those purposes too. Magic cancelling manacles showing up at least twice.

Or just fucking cut out their tongue... Well over 90% of spells had Verbal components.

Lopping off a fighter's thumb was great for curbing them, too.

Sometimes the old ways are best.

I hate it when those darn pc's do not stay in jail like the plot demands. The nerve.