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The 5e Wizard...initiate thy worship or thy fury!!

Started by Spinachcat, June 29, 2014, 01:51:15 AM

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Marleycat

#225
July 01, 2014, 11:09:55 PM
Quote from: mcbobbo;763285Yep.  I am betting we still find casters locked away in dungeons though.  Probably in official modules.  Anyone want to take that bet?

Why? Given 5e is trying to be setting based like 2e while making the PHB and DMG a big toolbox.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Marleycat

#226
July 01, 2014, 11:11:30 PM Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 11:33:16 PM by Marleycat
Quote from: JonWake;763290There aren't any 0 level spells that will get them out from behind a locked iron door. Might make them a little bit more dangerous if you open the door without some backup, but you have a couple guys with crossbows and readied actions and you'll be fine.

Cantrips are 0 level spells via the starter set. And well....mage hand.....;)

Then you strategize......be a wizard already, obvious isn't the best tactic in this situation. Make them open the door and let the fun begin.

Cantrips aren't bullshit in 5e much like feats. They define your character and class more often then not. Again very little amount of slots so cantrips have to be versitile and important for a class that "are the supreme magic using class" yes?
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Haffrung

#227
July 01, 2014, 11:17:55 PM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;763136I see where the need for pew pew comes from if you are playing a monster fighting game (which is what WOTC has turned D&D into sadly).

Old School Revisionist bullshit.

D&D became a monster fighting game when Gygax could no longer personally show all the players how he meant it to be played - which is about a week after he started selling OD&D at conventions. Literally millions of players in the 80s played D&D as a monster fighting game.
 

Marleycat

#228
July 01, 2014, 11:22:56 PM
Quote from: Haffrung;763304Old School Revisionist bullshit.

D&D became a monster fighting game when Gygax could no longer personally show all the players how he meant it to be played - which is about a week after he started selling OD&D at conventions. Literally millions of players in the 80s played D&D as a monster fighting game.

Say it ain't so! Even OG will back you on this by the way.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

James Gillen

#229
July 02, 2014, 12:59:54 AM
Quote from: One Horse Town;763096At will cantrips do have some setting implications if you look at it for too long - something that 4e got away with by being batshit crazy and not caring about anything beyond the encounter.

I don't care for them much, but i also don't see them as a problem either.

As I recall, Pathfinder makes cantrips effectively at-will, and when my GM didn't like that he modified them to be 3 (+ modifier) times per day.
Of course I also don't think PF/3X cantrips are that powerful.

JG
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Marleycat

#230
July 02, 2014, 01:53:10 AM Last Edit: July 02, 2014, 02:00:04 AM by Marleycat
Quote from: James Gillen;763334As I recall, Pathfinder makes cantrips effectively at-will, and when my GM didn't like that he modified them to be 3 (+ modifier) times per day.
Of course I also don't think PF/3X cantrips are that powerful.

JG

They do. 3x slots them per day like 1/2e. Then again I can build a pure magic user with 70+ slots in those games. And I would give you nightmares with how I can break the game with a staff fighting Magus in PF.

It's all about the 19 spell slots you get in 5e. End of story because the magic items you give are on you not the game itself.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

jadrax

#231
July 02, 2014, 03:41:04 AM
Quote from: James Gillen;763334As I recall, Pathfinder makes cantrips effectively at-will, and when my GM didn't like that he modified them to be 3 (+ modifier) times per day.
Of course I also don't think PF/3X cantrips are that powerful.

JG

They are normally only d3 Damage. However, one of the Pathfinder Cantrips is Acid based, which I think has far more implications for breaking the game than any other energy type.

jadrax

#232
July 02, 2014, 03:42:41 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo;763285Yep.  I am betting we still find casters locked away in dungeons though.  Probably in official modules.  Anyone want to take that bet?

Using the play-test rules at least, as long as the caster is manacled or cuffed, he can't cast spells (including cantrips) at all.

Omega

#233
July 02, 2014, 05:47:41 AM
Quote from: jadrax;763363Using the play-test rules at least, as long as the caster is manacled or cuffed, he can't cast spells (including cantrips) at all.

And ray of frost or the other cantrips arent likely to be much use against a stone wall or iron door. Caves of chaos additional DM info even states this. That players with base weapons or spells are not going to be able to tunnel through stone walls.

Exploderwizard

#234
July 02, 2014, 09:31:41 AM
Quote from: Omega;763377And ray of frost or the other cantrips arent likely to be much use against a stone wall or iron door. Caves of chaos additional DM info even states this. That players with base weapons or spells are not going to be able to tunnel through stone walls.

Well if a pick can't tunnel through stone, how were the tunnels made in the first place?
Quote from: JonWakeGamers, as a whole, are much like primitive cavemen when confronted with a new game. Rather than \'oh, neat, what\'s this do?\', the reaction is to decide if it\'s a sex hole, then hit it with a rock.

Quote from: Old Geezer;724252At some point it seems like D&D is going to disappear up its own ass.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;766997In the randomness of the dice lies the seed for the great oak of creativity and fun. The great virtue of the dice is that they come without boxed text.

jadrax

#235
July 02, 2014, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;763416Well if a pick can't tunnel through stone, how were the tunnels made in the first place?

Purple Worms.

Warthur

#236
July 02, 2014, 09:45:41 AM
Quote from: Exploderwizard;763416Well if a pick can't tunnel through stone, how were the tunnels made in the first place?

Slowly. Even with the picks tunneling through stone it's not a simple matter of bashing at the rock, you need to ferry the rock out, you need to constantly work on stabilising the tunnel you've produced, and it takes a hell of a lot of swings of that pick to advance a full-sized tunnel any appreciable distance. PCs typically do not have time during a dungeon exploration to start up a small mining operation.
I am no longer posting here or reading this forum because Pundit has regularly claimed credit for keeping this community active. I am sick of his bullshit for reasons I explain here and I don\'t want to contribute to anything he considers to be a personal success on his part.

I recommend The RPG Pub as a friendly place where RPGs can be discussed and where the guiding principles of moderation are "be kind to each other" and "no politics". It\'s pretty chill so far.

mcbobbo

#237
July 02, 2014, 11:42:34 AM
Quote from: Warthur;763420Slowly. Even with the picks tunneling through stone it's not a simple matter of bashing at the rock, you need to ferry the rock out, you need to constantly work on stabilising the tunnel you've produced, and it takes a hell of a lot of swings of that pick to advance a full-sized tunnel any appreciable distance. PCs typically do not have time during a dungeon exploration to start up a small mining operation.

My first concern is the guards who bring the meals.  A 22 isn't a great mining tool either, but they don't typically lock people up without removing their handguns.

My second concern is how that unlimited d8 damage is expected not to harm the door.

I genuinely think wizards would never be jailed in a setting like this.  It could have been said before also, I mean an unspent fireball is also bad news for the jailors.  But now that skinny, long-bearded asshole is never going to stop blasting the door to his cell and there's no good way to make him stop short of leaving him trussed up all the time.  Better just to kill him.

It's like a guy with a handgun welded to his arm.  Too dangerous to try and warehouse.
"It is the mark of an [intelligent] mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

Emperor Norton

#238
July 02, 2014, 11:44:34 AM
I'm particularly fond of just making cantrips require a focus of some type. That solves the imprisonment problem.

Bill

#239
July 02, 2014, 11:49:03 AM
Quote from: Emperor Norton;763465I'm particularly fond of just making cantrips require a focus of some type. That solves the imprisonment problem.

I would generally not let a wizard cast any spell, cantrip or otherwise, while manacled.

The wizard might be able to use a contingency, or a verbal only spell if the captors screw up.

A wizard using ray of frost on a door is not much different than a big fighter kicking a door. 1-8 vs 1-2+3 or whatever.

The door is probably immune to both.
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