Shiva had a trident, I think.

Upthread somewhere far back I asked if anyone knew anything about Weapon Focus and its ilk, but nobody responded.  Maybe it rightfully got lost in the staff v spear donnybrook.

So, does Weapon Focus survive as a Fighter class feature that just gives an across-the-board bonus to weapon damage (as it seemed to be in the last playtest doc I saw) or in some other way?

The focus/specialization feats were some of my least favorite "feat taxes", especially the racial forms.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;759234Upthread somewhere far back I asked if anyone knew anything about Weapon Focus and its ilk, but nobody responded.  Maybe it rightfully got lost in the staff v spear donnybrook.

So, does Weapon Focus survive as a Fighter class feature that just gives an across-the-board bonus to weapon damage (as it seemed to be in the last playtest doc I saw) or in some other way?

The focus/specialization feats were some of my least favorite "feat taxes", especially the racial forms.

I don't have the material in front of me, but I don't recall any weapon specialization type feat/skill in 5e.  There are feats like polearm specialization, but its a broad feat and no single +1 type feats anywhere, unless you're talking about the broad fighting style stuff like archery

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759236I don't have the material in front of me, but I don't recall any weapon specialization type feat/skill in 5e.  There are feats like polearm specialization, but its a broad feat and no single +1 type feats anywhere.

This is what I saw on the Dwarf Fighter sheet from one of the play test packets, but haven't seen anything else like it.

QuoteWEAPON FOCUS: You gain
a +2 bonus to damage on
weapon attacks. This bonus
has already been figured into
the damage of your attacks.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;759237This is what I saw on the Dwarf Fighter sheet from one of the play test packets, but haven't seen anything else like it.

That's an old version.  I pulled up my docs to be sure, and there aren't any things like that any more.

Dwarves get proficiency in axes and other weapons as a bonus, but don't get bonuses to hit and damage.  Fighting styles for fighters get a bonus +1 to attack rolls for archery, and can apply ability modifier damage for dual weapon style.  Barbarians get bonuses to damage from raging, but nothing like a weapon focus/specialization skill

Feats like polearm mastery basically treat the weapon like a double bladed weapon, allowing you another minor attack you can make with it (1d4 dmg) and causing opponents to suffer an attack of opportunity if they enter range

Other feats like archery mastery allow you to make long ranged attacks without suffering disadvantage, and allow you an extra shot as long as you take a -5 penalty to each attack that round.

So nothing really like the weapon focus/spec/spec II feat chain you saw in AD&D and 3e.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759080One thing I like about standard damage is that players are more apt to choose weapons based on what they like, rather than what damage they do.  In modern D&D (and most RPGs), how many dual dagger weilding PCs do you see?  Not many.  They're all with weapons to maximize damage.  The poor broad sword in D&D was always tossed aside for the long sword

According to, I believe, Old Geezer. Some of the players opted for iron spikes as those were the cheapest weapon you could get.

So in 5e that would be the Club, Great Club, Quaterstaff, Dart and Sling. aheh.

Much as I may malign 4e D&D Gamma World, during chargen the only choice you had was your starting weapon and armour. It was one ranged and one  melee. And they were divided into light and heavy, one handed and two handed, and ranged were divided further into regular or guns. What the weapon was was up to the player.
A light 1 handed melee was a d8 weapon and a 2-hander was a d12. While a 2-handed heavy was 2d8. Could be a knife, a rock, a Buick, a claymore.
Just choose the type and make it whatever your you want.

Quote from: Omega;759241A light 1 handed melee was a d8 weapon and a 2-hander was a d12. While a 2-handed heavy was 2d8. Could be a knife, a rock, a Buick, a claymore.
Just choose the type and make it whatever your you want.

One of my friends rolled up in his random equipment that he had a Saxophone. So he said his 1 handed heavy weapon was a reinforced saxophone.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;759198Staff fighters have a little bit of cultural cachet, from Little John to Donatello. I can't think of similar spear-wielders off hand; even the term 'spear carrier' is dismissive.

Also staves are percieved as more family friendly in media. In media you can poke, stun and subdue someone with a staff. A spear leaves those bothersome spurty holes in the foe.

TMHT in the UK. Then again they also banned the showing of nunchaku. So even those blunt weapons arent safe. ahem...

Quote from: Gunslinger;759213No love for his goats?

Odin has Sleipnir, Loki's multi-legged horse kid he had while posing as a mare to save the construction of Asgard.

That plays right to my preferences, so cool!

Quote from: Sacrosanct;759239That's an old version.  I pulled up my docs to be sure, and there aren't any things like that any more.

Dwarves get proficiency in axes and other weapons as a bonus, but don't get bonuses to hit and damage.  Fighting styles for fighters get a bonus +1 to attack rolls for archery, and can apply ability modifier damage for dual weapon style.  Barbarians get bonuses to damage from raging, but nothing like a weapon focus/specialization skill

Feats like polearm mastery basically treat the weapon like a double bladed weapon, allowing you another minor attack you can make with it (1d4 dmg) and causing opponents to suffer an attack of opportunity if they enter range

Other feats like archery mastery allow you to make long ranged attacks without suffering disadvantage, and allow you an extra shot as long as you take a -5 penalty to each attack that round.

So nothing really like the weapon focus/spec/spec II feat chain you saw in AD&D and 3e.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;759198Staff fighters have a little bit of cultural cachet, from Little John to Donatello. I can't think of similar spear-wielders off hand; even the term 'spear carrier' is dismissive.

They have Oberyn Martell

Quote from: Larsdangly;759200Totally bizarre. The spear is the primary combat weapon for infantry combat in countless nations and eras. The staff is a thing you use for walking, goofing around in martial arts class, and showing off in hollywood movies.

I have posted this before but worth the repeat - from http://ejmas.com/jwma/articles/2001/jwmaart_docherty_0501.htm

"In the year 1625 England and Spain were at war and Peeke was serving in an English naval squadron, under the command of the Earl of Essex, which was attacking a Spanish naval stronghold. After heavy and accurate bombardment the English captured the fortress, whereupon, they sent forces ashore to carry the attack inland. In the wake of the English landings sailors were sent ashore to forage for food. Richard Peeke, of Tavistock in Devon, was among them. Unwisely he foraged alone and paid the price for his mistake when he was attacked by a patrol of spanish musketers. After a furious fight, during which Peeke was wounded twice, he was captured and taken in chains to Cales ( Cadiz ). from there he was transfered to Xeres where he was put on trial. Present at his trial, which in reality was a miitary interrogation, were four Dukes, four Marquesses, and four Earls. After much questioning Peeke was asked if he thought that the Spanish soldiers present would prove such 'hennes' as the English when they landed in England the following yeare. "

"No" replied Peeke. "They would prove to be pullets or chickens."

Peeke's insolent reply brought forth an angry response from the Spaniards.

"Darst thou then ( quoth Duke Mdyna, with a brow half angry ) fight with one of these Spanish pullets."

Peeke replied that,

"...hee was unworthy the name of an Englishman, that should refuse to fight with one man of any nation whatsoever."

At this Peek's chains and shackles were removed and a space was created for him to fight a Spanish champion by the name of Tiago. Both were armed with Rapier and Poinard. The ensuing fight continued for some time before Peeke, using the guard of the poinard, trapped the blade of Tiago's rapier and simultaniously swept the Spaniards feet from under him. Peeke's rapier, held to the throat of senor Tiago brought forth the necessary capitulation. Spanish pride had been sorely wounded and it was demanded of Peeke whether he would be willing to fight another Spaniard. Peeke replied in the affirmative provided he was allowed to fight with.

"... mine owne countrrey weapon called the quarter - staffe."

Upon this remark the Spanish unscrewed the head from a Halbered to create a makeshift Quarterstaff. Armed with the weapon of his choice Peeke stood ready to meet his next challenger. However the Spanish were clearly no longer so confident in the prowess of their soldiers for, to Peeke's consternation, two Swordsmen stepped forward to fight him. Peeke sarcastically asked if more would like to join them. The Duke of Medyna asked how many he desired to fight.

"Any number under sixe". replied Peeke.

The Duke smiled scornfully and beckoned a third man to join the original two. Peeke and the rapier men warily traversed each other, all the while thrusting and warding, till finally Peeke gambled on an all out attack. His first blow a left one of his adversaries dead and his subsequent blows left the other two injured and disarmed. No doubt they also left the spanish seriously questioning the wisdom of their invasion plans. Peeke's feat so impressed his Spanish captors that they released him and granted him safe conduct to England.

A tale to warm the heart of every Englishman, but the realities of the quarterstaff were far more gruesome, as a report from 1527 shows.

On the 4th of September, John Strynger late of Babworth, laborour, assaulted Henry Pereson of Babworth with a staff worth 1d. Which he held in both hands, striking him on top of the head so that his brains flowed out and giving him a wound 1 inch deep, 2 inches wide and 3 inches long of which he immediately died. Thus John feloniously murdered him, and immediately afterwards he fled about 9am and escaped. Robert Bramley, a man of good reputation and standing, first found Henry dead. ( J.C.Holt Robin Hood Pages 170-71 )

Although the quarterstaff is seen as a weapon of film and television by modern society may be even a weapon of myth, the reality as we have just read were very different, the quarterstaff, was not known as the king of weapons for nothing.

Quote from: jibbajibba;759269They have Oberyn Martell

And Matrim Cauthon (Robert Jordan was in the military, a graduate of VMI, and a serious military historian).

Another obvious reason for how 5e handles the quarterstaff is Pathfinder specifically their GISH the Magus with the staff fighting archetype.

Quote from: Brander;759013Nice strawman.  Fight someone who has practiced spear and shield.  Give em a blunted "spear" (pretty sure you do that already unless the SCA are killing more people with metal tipped spears than I'm aware)  and tell me it somehow changes things.  The spear/staff and shield fighter will destroy you unless you are extremely good or they are extremely bad.

The SCA has some rules for safety that can lead to bad intuition.  They actually use wraps to the back of the helmet, a maneuver that would be much less effective if shield bashes or grapples were allowed.  Or if the blow had to cleave the helmet.  

With a spear, the knees and below are not legal targets.  A very, very good rule for safety (SCA fighting is shockingly safe due to a genuine culture of caring about people not being hurt while having fun), it does eliminate one of the obvious tricks to keep a for at range with a spear.  It also disallows the some of the standard counters for people who get inside the range of the spear.  

Fun sport and it does yield some genuine insights, but it isn't perfect.

I think what's often missing in rpg combat systems is blunt weapons stunning and or inflicting blunt trauma, and pointy/cutting weapons inflicting bleeders or nasty wounds.