The stories of D&D are not character backgrounds or elaborate plots created by the DM. They're the memories we create when we play, whether meta-game or within the game, they're the "Remember the time Bob cast invisibility on himself, and tied the Giant's shoelaces together as the giant slept?" moments.
Last night I was privileged enough to create and be a part of one of the best of those.
Every year I run a "Christmas game" for the adventurers. Without delving too much into the specifics, the party was squared off against a herd of deadly Christmas Tree Monsters (shamelessly lifted from the Zork games). They had no idea how they'd overcome hundreds of 9' tall, angry intelligent Christmas trees. Charm Plant? Use a Potion of Plant Control? Fireball them?
Finally a couple of players suggested they try to sing Christmas carols at them (the Trees were singing off-color versions of old Christmas standards like "Plover the River and Frotz the Woods" and "I'm Dreaming of a Black Cavern" and so on).
Jeremy Rule, playing the party bard, picked up his guitar (note: Jeremy, not the bard) and started strumming "Oh Christmas Tree".
I told them that if they all had a sing-along, I would let them by the encounter, that they'd overcome the Christmas Tree Monster army.
So they did just that, on Discord (the lag made it a little jumbled but the spirit was with them) and after a few bars of the song, the deadly Yule Tide parted and they were able to pass unassailed.
I remember years ago when I got my Dungeon Masters Guide, the notes for Heward's Mystical Organ said that if you (the DM) had a piano handy, to either write your own sheet music or compel the players to play old standards to activate and successfully use it. When I was 13, I thought that was the most ridiculous thing I'd ever read. Neat, but impractical. And yet, here I was, 36 years later...
It's memories like that, which are the "story" of D&D games.
That's cool! You do run great Christmas games! Sounds like this one was a blast.
Quote from: EOTB;1117010That's cool! You do run great Christmas games! Sounds like this one was a blast.
Thanks man. I hope one day you can come game with us again.
One big difference between games Back Then and games today:
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a backstory as you create the character, 1st level character has led an exciting life.
Quote from: finarvyn;1117171One big difference between games Back Then and games today:
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a backstory as you create the character, 1st level character has led an exciting life.
I see this more this way,
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a 10 page backstory as you create the character, so that the DM is forced to swallow your claim to the 110 skills that you have mastered so that you can have an Über character.
Quote from: finarvyn;1117171Today -- make a backstory as you create the character, 1st level character has led an exciting life.
Why not? The events that led from 0 level to 1st level could have been quite exciting.
Quote from: finarvyn;1117171One big difference between games Back Then and games today:
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a backstory as you create the character, 1st level character has led an exciting life.
Quote from: ElBorak;1117273I see this more this way,
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a 10 page backstory as you create the character, so that the DM is forced to swallow your claim to the 110 skills that you have mastered so that you can have an Über character.
Quote from: Reckall;1117362Why not? The events that led from 0 level to 1st level could have been quite exciting.
I feel like this is a false dichotomy. "Backstory" technically would include all of the character's life prior to an arbitrarily defined present story. That present isn't fixed at "the beginning of a campaign where the PCs all start at level 1."
Focusing excessively on a backstory at the expense of the present story would be a mistake, I agree, but that doesn't mean we should arbitrarily discard all backstory prior to the present story. I don't know, it might be interesting if the PCs all have very simple backstories that help to explain how they got to the present, like a paladin who wants to avenge his massacred tribe, a seemingly human warlock who is actually an artificial surveyor for aliens intending to colonize the planet, a wizard or priest who is seeking out all sorts of hidden lore, an oracle who had a vision that demands they join the party, etc.
Then again, I'm the sort of GM who would hand out XP for comedic soap operatic roleplaying. Like, I don't know, the alien warlock gets impregnated by the paladin with the kwisatz haderach antichrist her creators need to open the way to invade the planet, the wizard priest discovers a spell to destroy the world except for the caster and keeps it secret, the oracle is abducted by talking squirrels to become their goddess and actually gets into the role, etc.
IIRC there are some indie mechanics where the player can retroactively invent backstory that pertains to the current situation. YMMV.
You know, I don't recall ever having done a "christmas" session .I've done a few for Halloween.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1117536You know, I don't recall ever having done a "christmas" session .I've done a few for Halloween.
You totally should, it's lots of fun!
Ohhh Noooes! Santa's gettin' the Axe out again!!!...
(https://i.imgur.com/bduYnVN.jpg)
The whole gang is here!
(https://i.imgur.com/Ddqhx0J.jpg?1)
Mind you, look out for the undead reindeer!
(https://i.imgur.com/1wAoygu.jpg)
Is that you Krampus? We kids have been good! Promise!!!...
(https://i.imgur.com/82PAkcn.jpg)
Mrs. Claus is done taking your smack, you best be movin' on now!
(https://i.imgur.com/HNIK5Ir.jpg)
The Gingerbread Gang is all here, and we are pissssssseeed!
(https://i.imgur.com/0suPrdD.jpg)
Sloppy paint jobs provided by the GameDaddy, neat paint jobs and miniatures brought to you by,
The War in Christmas Village kickstarters found here!
https://www.facebook.com/WarinChristmasVillage/
Quote from: GameDaddy;1117541Sloppy paint jobs provided by the GameDaddy, neat paint jobs and miniatures brought to you by, The War in Christmas Village kickstarters found here!
https://www.facebook.com/WarinChristmasVillage/
Well, rats. I
totally would've backed that but it looks like I just missed it.
I want to run a Christmas game in 2020. Didn't quite make it this year. Gives me a whole year to plot something hopefully fun!
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1117439I feel like this is a false dichotomy. "Backstory" technically would include all of the character's life prior to an arbitrarily defined present story. That present isn't fixed at "the beginning of a campaign where the PCs all start at level 1."
Focusing excessively on a backstory at the expense of the present story would be a mistake, I agree, but that doesn't mean we should arbitrarily discard all backstory prior to the present story. I don't know, it might be interesting if the PCs all have very simple backstories that help to explain how they got to the present, like a paladin who wants to avenge his massacred tribe, a seemingly human warlock who is actually an artificial surveyor for aliens intending to colonize the planet, a wizard or priest who is seeking out all sorts of hidden lore, an oracle who had a vision that demands they join the party, etc.
Then again, I'm the sort of GM who would hand out XP for comedic soap operatic roleplaying. Like, I don't know, the alien warlock gets impregnated by the paladin with the kwisatz haderach antichrist her creators need to open the way to invade the planet, the wizard priest discovers a spell to destroy the world except for the caster and keeps it secret, the oracle is abducted by talking squirrels to become their goddess and actually gets into the role, etc.
IIRC there are some indie mechanics where the player can retroactively invent backstory that pertains to the current situation. YMMV.
Focusing excessively on backstory to the detriment of the game is the current and long running paradigm. Just as "story" i.e. script, is a detriment to the game and is the current and long running paradigm
Quote from: GameDaddy;1117541Sloppy paint jobs provided by the GameDaddy, neat paint jobs and miniatures brought to you by, The War in Christmas Village kickstarters found here!
https://www.facebook.com/WarinChristmasVillage/
That is great stuff, thanks for sharing.
Quote from: ElBorak;1117604Focusing excessively on backstory to the detriment of the game is the current and long running paradigm. Just as "story" i.e. script, is a detriment to the game and is the current and long running paradigm
Okay, then I've been out of the loop for a while because I thought roleplaying was akin to improv theater. Even when characters die and replace according to deadly old school standards the replacements are still the same meta-character like Doctor Who. Did I get that wrong?
Quote from: ElBorak;1117604Focusing excessively on backstory to the detriment of the game is the current and long running paradigm.
Quote from: ElBorak;1117604Just as "story" i.e. script, is a detriment to the game and is the current and long running paradigm
The two are not equivalent. Having a past at the start of a campaign is not doing it "wrong". It is a preference. RPG campaign work fine with either extreme in terms of character backstory. There could be issues but those are not the same as trying to conform a campaign to a set of predetermined events.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1117939Okay, then I've been out of the loop for a while because I thought roleplaying was akin to improv theater. Even when characters die and replace according to deadly old school standards the replacements are still the same meta-character like Doctor Who. Did I get that wrong?
Roleplaying is pretending to be a character. It could be one with a detailed background and a distinct personality that the players acts out. Or it could be basically you with the abilities of the
character and no backstory. Or anything in between.
In my experience most hobbyists play a version of themselves, with the abilities of the character, with a different personality trait or two, and a background element or two that encompasses a sentence or at most a short paragraph.
My own preference is to sketch out a character personality and background and act as that character not as myself. Background I usually create with a light touch unless I know the referee is interested in using it. Then I would supply more detail but only to the point the ref feel they have enough.
And it my preference, I don't expect or care if players do the same. I just accept whatever they do at face value and go from there.
The only time I run into issues are with some older gamers who don't grasp that that me roleplaying my character is not the same as me talking.
Quote from: estar;1117954In my experience most hobbyists play a version of themselves, with the abilities of the character, with a different personality trait or two, and a background element or two that encompasses a sentence or at most a short paragraph.
This is the sweet spot, for me. And IME for most casual players. Telling a newb to act as someone radically different than themselves cuts out a fair number of people who might be willing to roll dice otherwise.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1117939Okay, then I've been out of the loop for a while because I thought roleplaying was akin to improv theater. Even when characters die and replace according to deadly old school standards the replacements are still the same meta-character like Doctor Who. Did I get that wrong?
RPGing has some relation to improv theater, but much less than LARPs.
As for PC replacements, that's up to individual GMs and players. Some players will just create a nigh-clone of their last PC, often because they really play RPGs to play "that one dude". It's where the meme of Bob the Dwarf IV and 2nd Cousin of Bob the Elf comes from. Most players however take the opportunity to try out a new class and/or race, often with a different persona. A few players relish creating wildly different characters each time.
There's no right answer. For my table, I encourage players to create new characters, but I'm fine with 50% "new" because the importance is just everyone have fun and return to immersion in the game.
Quote from: ElBorak;1117604Focusing excessively on backstory to the detriment of the game is the current and long running paradigm.
Just as "story" i.e. script, is a detriment to the game and is the current and long running paradigm
Quote from: estar;1117953The two are not equivalent. Having a past at the start of a campaign is not doing it "wrong". It is a preference. RPG campaign work fine with either extreme in terms of character backstory. There could be issues but those are not the same as trying to conform a campaign to a set of predetermined events.
My experience has been that the two are equivalent.
No one is saying that having a backstory is "wrong," what I am saying is that focusing excessively on backstory is (often) detrimental to the game. The reason is that the shark jumping backstories are usually the province of the very worst of the min-maxers, if you go with their backstories you might as well say, "Thanks for writing up that 10th level local Earl of the House of Zorgburg NPC for me, but this game is starting with all 1st level characters, now what are you going to play today?"
Excessive backstory is the SAME as trying to conform your home brew campaign with someone else's set of predetermined events. I prefer no more than a paragraph of backstory, you may be happy with 1-2 small font single spaced pages, but when you get to the 10-20 page backstories surely you can admit that it can be seen as an attempt by a problem person to high jack the game from the DM and the other players and render them irrelevant to the Rif Raf saga.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1117939Okay, then I've been out of the loop for a while because I thought roleplaying was akin to improv theater. Even when characters die and replace according to deadly old school standards the replacements are still the same meta-character like Doctor Who. Did I get that wrong?
Quote from: estar;1117954Roleplaying is pretending to be a character. It could be one with a detailed background and a distinct personality that the players acts out. Or it could be basically you with the abilities of the character and no backstory. Or anything in between.
There is a lot of improv on the part of the DM, after all he brings all the NPCs to life. For the players it depends on the player. Some are only comfortable playing themselves with all the limits that entails, but if that makes them happy that is fine. A very few will play the same distinct character, but not themselves, every time. Others (the majority in my experience) will play anything except themselves, with every PC they create being completely different. Some of them write a short backstory and some do not. Personally I like to roll up a character and then let it surprise me as I play it as it tells me who it is during play. I don't like to shackle
myself before play starts, but create something as we go that is unique and (at least to me) memorable. For me personally backstory is a shackle of heavy chains, for you they may be intangible wisps of gossamer.
Quote from: EOTB;1117956This is the sweet spot, for me. And IME for most casual players. Telling a newb to act as someone radically different than themselves cuts out a fair number of people who might be willing to roll dice otherwise.
No one that I know of is telling newbs that they cannot just play themselves, in my experience very few want to do that though. In practice I tell people about the game and the gist of how it works and I tell them you can play yourself, your ideal self, imitate your favorite fictional character or work up something completely new, your choice. Most people in my experience go for the last option.
Most newbs can't keep it up. Because ultimately when they do try to imitate a fictional character, they tend to not have a good understanding of what that fictional character is and what makes them tick, they only think they do because of (in)famous moments where the character did something and nothing else.
Learning to roleplay your character is a bit of a skill that comes with practice. But you know that.
I wanted to chime in - I've done christmas adventures before. I kept it up for a few years back when I ran D&D - I'd make the Grinch a demon... and all the PC's loot was in his bag and if they didn't down him, they got BUPKUS.
Of course I made him intensely difficult to kill. But my murder-hobos never failed to get themselves killed trying for that wonderful bag of gear.
Quote from: ElBorak;1118017No one that I know of is telling newbs that they cannot just play themselves, in my experience very few want to do that though. In practice I tell people about the game and the gist of how it works and I tell them you can play yourself, your ideal self, imitate your favorite fictional character or work up something completely new, your choice. Most people in my experience go for the last option.
The irony is that all the characters you assume are transparently the same person.
RPGs should be less like improv theater and more like improv history.
Quote from: ElBorak;1117273I see this more this way,
Back Then -- make a character, backstory gets created as we play.
Today -- make a 10 page backstory as you create the character, so that the DM is forced to swallow your claim to the 110 skills that you have mastered so that you can have an Über character.
If the character generation system lets you roll up a character with 110 skills then that's fine or it's an issue with the design of the game mechanics - all the other players could roll up a character with 110 skills using the same system. If the system doesn't allow 110 skills then redirect the player to use the actual rules for generating their character.
FATE, for example, is pretty free-form in what you can do with a character, but all characters get the same skill pyramid plus 5 aspects and 3 stunts. You can make up any back story you want but if you don't design trouble into the aspects then you don't get any delicious FATE points from compels or invoke-against. Mary-sue characters are bad by design. D&D is even more prescriptive in what skills you get for what class and you can make it even more egalitarian by using point buy for stats. Traveller only gives you coarse-grained control over your character to begin with.
There is, of course, a social contract here not to be a dick. Some folks observe this more than others.
I've found DMs pretty much universally appreciating back stories if you put in some decent hooks; I even had the DM requesting them from other players. You can shake the back stories down and fit them further into the game as you go. In one case recently the DM took one of the hooks and turned it into a major side-quest for the party.
Hi! Happy new year!
Totally agree with the title's concept, that sounds like a fun gamenight!
As for the discussion of backgrounds, ever since I discovered BoL it's the system I prefer, you're a new adventurer, your background can't be that vast nor encompass vast skills. But you get to have some starting points to roleplay your character.
Say you are the blacksmith's son, ergo his apprentice, you have some expertise in roll related to that. You left your home and became a greenhorn sailor for how long? then you get some expertise on that, and so on up to 4 past careers with a fixed number of points to allocate among all.
You get some backstory and some skills but you can't min-max the system.
I find it's very easy to houserule this in any game and system you're using, only work for the GM is to settle on what careers to put that make sense for the setting. Something Simon has solved for you with his Everywhen book. Worth your time and money even if only to steal the careers for your houserules.
Well, I mean, that's the way I've set it up with background skills in Lion & Dragon, as well as the prior history table.