I don't do miniatures. But lately I've been having more and more larger battles where I think miniatures might be handy. In the past, I've used paper and card stock miniatures for this. But I'd like to put something together using plastic miniatures and terrain pieces. Any suggestions for games set in Ancient China? I haven't bought miniatures or terrain since the Ral Partha days.
http://www.oshiromodelterrain.co.uk/ch/chinese.html
http://wargamesterrainworkshop.co.uk/?product_cat=oriental-scenery
As far as miniatures goes, Reaper makes some pretty decent ones (you can search by class and race, too). There's some martial-artsish guys in Wyrd, too (but I don't know their scale).
Wargames Foundry has a Chinese range. A lot of them have firearms since it's colonial/Boxer rebellion era, but a lot just have traditional clothes and weapons. Not a lot of mandarin type armors and clothes, but should be able to find some applicable there.
If you are looking to build some of your own terrain, look to the model railroad hobby. There are tips and tricks in their store of knowledge that are inexpensive time savers and look great.
Chinese wargaming is a bit of a trick... loads of choices for Japanese stuff, Clan War, Ronin, etc.... but far less for China.
For historical army rules I'd probably look to Lion Rampant (https://ospreypublishing.com/lion-rampant-medieval-wargaming-rules) (or Dragon Rampant if you want to add some fantasy stuff). Simple medieval rules that focus on a 'retinue' level... not huge armies but beyond what you'd normally do with an RPG. There is an example Mongol retinue in the book and I'm guessing there would be some for Song Chinese around on the wargame forums.
The same company that puts out Lion Rampant also has A Fistful of Kung Fu (https://ospreypublishing.com/a-fistful-of-kung-fu-hong-kong-movie-wargame-rules), which are Wuxia skirmish rules, <20 figs per player.
This page has starter armies for Song and Mongols, but they're metal: http://1stcorps.co.uk/product-category/deals/army-packs-lion-rampant-starter-armies/
Here are some plastic Mongols: http://www.fireforge-games.com/webstore/mongol-horde/mongol-cavalry-details
Here's a rundown of some Chinese/Wuxia skirmish figures: http://www.randomplatypus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=595
Reaper doesn't really do miniatures for armies, but they've got stuff that would make for good character minis.
Look to any historical minis company...
Wargames Foundry
Dixon
Old Glory
John Jenkins
Eureka
ebob
Warlord Games
Forlorn Hope
Fireforge
Copplestone
Also look to any company that has any kind of Pulp thing going on...they almost always have Fu-Manchu types.
Pulpfigures
Reaper's Chronoscope line
Hasslefree
Essex Miniatures does Tang Dynasty Chinese in 25 mm. They are probably older sculpts so closer to 25 mm than 28 and would be short compared to fantasy sized figures:
http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/25mm-ancient-tang-five-dynasties-chinese
Perry Brothers have a line of Japanese and Korean figures, they do both metal and plastic:
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_39&osCsid=hf7vpjv3noong17k42qijqfo66
There is also the British company 1st Corps:
http://1stcorps.co.uk/
Not my field to collect miniatures so I cannot say anything about any of them, except that in other areas, Perry produces some beautiful miniatures
Quote from: wombat1;918450Not my field to collect miniatures so I cannot say anything about any of them, except that in other areas, Perry produces some beautiful miniatures
Some of their mounted knights are amazing.
Quote from: CRKrueger;918441Wargames Foundry has a Chinese range. A lot of them have firearms since it's colonial/Boxer rebellion era, but a lot just have traditional clothes and weapons. Not a lot of mandarin type armors and clothes, but should be able to find some applicable there.
My setting is Song Dynasty roughly, but I will check this one out.
Quote from: Crüesader;918402http://www.oshiromodelterrain.co.uk/ch/chinese.html
http://wargamesterrainworkshop.co.uk/?product_cat=oriental-scenery
As far as miniatures goes, Reaper makes some pretty decent ones (you can search by class and race, too). There's some martial-artsish guys in Wyrd, too (but I don't know their scale).
I like the courtyard house pieces.
Quote from: wombat1;918450Essex Miniatures does Tang Dynasty Chinese in 25 mm. They are probably older sculpts so closer to 25 mm than 28 and would be short compared to fantasy sized figures:
http://www.essexminiatures.co.uk/collections/25mm-ancient-tang-five-dynasties-chinese
Perry Brothers have a line of Japanese and Korean figures, they do both metal and plastic:
https://www.perry-miniatures.com/index.php?cPath=23_39&osCsid=hf7vpjv3noong17k42qijqfo66
There is also the British company 1st Corps:
http://1stcorps.co.uk/
Not my field to collect miniatures so I cannot say anything about any of them, except that in other areas, Perry produces some beautiful miniatures
Tang is pretty close to what I am going for. And I have an area on the map that is specifically modeled on the Tang Dynasty.
Quote from: Simlasa;918445Chinese wargaming is a bit of a trick... loads of choices for Japanese stuff, Clan War, Ronin, etc.... but far less for China.
For historical army rules I'd probably look to Lion Rampant (https://ospreypublishing.com/lion-rampant-medieval-wargaming-rules) (or Dragon Rampant if you want to add some fantasy stuff). Simple medieval rules that focus on a 'retinue' level... not huge armies but beyond what you'd normally do with an RPG. There is an example Mongol retinue in the book and I'm guessing there would be some for Song Chinese around on the wargame forums.
The same company that puts out Lion Rampant also has A Fistful of Kung Fu (https://ospreypublishing.com/a-fistful-of-kung-fu-hong-kong-movie-wargame-rules), which are Wuxia skirmish rules, <20 figs per player.
This page has starter armies for Song and Mongols, but they're metal: http://1stcorps.co.uk/product-category/deals/army-packs-lion-rampant-starter-armies/
Here are some plastic Mongols: http://www.fireforge-games.com/webstore/mongol-horde/mongol-cavalry-details
Here's a rundown of some Chinese/Wuxia skirmish figures: http://www.randomplatypus.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=595
Reaper doesn't really do miniatures for armies, but they've got stuff that would make for good character minis.
That rundown page is really helpful.
Quote from: jeff37923;918443If you are looking to build some of your own terrain, look to the model railroad hobby. There are tips and tricks in their store of knowledge that are inexpensive time savers and look great.
This is honestly the most intimidating part of it for me. Buying miniatures, buying buildings, that I can handle. I never got into terrain, but if I am going to do this now, I'd like to incorporate it. It seems like a challenge. We have a model train store nearby in Peabody, so maybe I'll go there when I take my wife to work on monday. Any suggestions for what I should look for (I honestly don't know where to begin here).
A lot of wargames terrain is built out of pink insulation foam. You can buy it in 4x8 foot sheets at Home Depot/Lowes... places like that... well, if you live in colder climate. Here in the desert I have to special order it. Once you have it you can cut it into smaller segments, cut out shapes, glue it... use knives and foam cutters to shape it... then paint it and flock it. It's really pretty easy.
Here are some videos:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=pink+foam+terrain
You can't paint it with spraypaint... the solvents will eat the foam (which is a neat effect for weird alien hives...). You can get flock of different sorts at hobby shops.
For buildings, a lot of people use foamcore:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=wargames+buildings+foamcore
There's also DM Scotty, who is a zany terrain guru on Youtube. He uses lots of cardboard and hot glue to make really low cost RPG terrain:
https://www.youtube.com/user/theDMsCraft/videos
Making terrain is lots of fun, you can use all those skills you learned in elementary school arts class... popsicle sticks and paper mache and tempera paint... bamboo skewers, plaster tape and potato stamps. Start saving interesting bits to glue together to make stuff. I've got a big plastic storage tub of plastic scraps, bottle caps, interesting shapes I found at the dollar store.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918472This is honestly the most intimidating part of it for me. Buying miniatures, buying buildings, that I can handle. I never got into terrain, but if I am going to do this now, I'd like to incorporate it. It seems like a challenge. We have a model train store nearby in Peabody, so maybe I'll go there when I take my wife to work on monday. Any suggestions for what I should look for (I honestly don't know where to begin here).
Most places have books or magazines that specialize in terrain advice.
If it was myself, I'd look into some Woodland Scenics. They have a line of learning aids. (http://woodlandscenics.woodlandscenics.com/show/category/LearningAids) I would concentrate on tips for farmlands and shallow water, because IIRC, many of the large battles of that dynasty happened in the fields among the rice paddies (I think, I could be wrong).
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918472This is honestly the most intimidating part of it for me. Buying miniatures, buying buildings, that I can handle. I never got into terrain, but if I am going to do this now, I'd like to incorporate it. It seems like a challenge. We have a model train store nearby in Peabody, so maybe I'll go there when I take my wife to work on monday. Any suggestions for what I should look for (I honestly don't know where to begin here).
If I may offer some advice, keep it simple and what's fun for you. Buying buildings and figures is a lot of the needful, right there; doing something to put them on is as simple or involved as you want to make it - and what you have room to store! Scenery can start with a simple canvas drop cloth from Home Depot - I use a lot of these for my games, and I enjoy painting them with 'maps' for specific games. ('Generic' scenery will also get a lot more use, I've found.) The pink or blue foam is great stuff, as you can 'dig' down into it for rivers and gullies - as was mentioned, don't use solvent-based paints as they'll melt the foam. Look in the Paint Department of the big-box DIYs like Lowe's or Home Depot; there will be literally gallons of paint going for cheap, and you'll usually be able to find shades in the colors you want. I cut up sheets of foam into modular tiles, and you can see these in action in the photos I have posted on my Photobucket page. Sawdust and latex house paint are your allies - and if you're like most of us, you have a relative with a home shop who'd be delighted to show off their skills and help you make things.
Trees and such - Woodland Scenics from the hobby shop are good, but you'll want to be careful with them. They're designed for stationary use on a model railway, and not for repeated handling. I put them on bases and handle the bases, which seems to extend their lifespan. Water is gloss varnish, applied over the latex paint you got from the discount rack. I get really cheap foliage and plants from the crafts stores and the pet stores, separate them from their stalks, and hot-melt glue them to bases A little paint, a little sawdust, and there you are - jungles and woods that are cheal and durable.
Look in the pet shops for Asian buildings - I once got a great model of the Temple of Heaven in Bejing on clearance for $10. A little paint, and it's been in games for years.
Another completely whacked-out idea: If you're only looking for the representation, and less concerned about the 'realism' of it?
Pause for effect.
Get Legos.
Quote from: Crüesader;918632Another completely whacked-out idea: If you're only looking for the representation, and less concerned about the 'realism' of it?
Pause for effect.
Get Legos.
I actually thought of using legos. But I think I want to go for something that looks a little more convincing. Mostly I am not looking to do historical battles, but swordplay movie locations and fights (inns, courtyard houses, tea houses, temples, wilderness, etc).
Quote from: chirine ba kal;918630If I may offer some advice, keep it simple and what's fun for you. Buying buildings and figures is a lot of the needful, right there; doing something to put them on is as simple or involved as you want to make it - and what you have room to store! Scenery can start with a simple canvas drop cloth from Home Depot - I use a lot of these for my games, and I enjoy painting them with 'maps' for specific games. ('Generic' scenery will also get a lot more use, I've found.) The pink or blue foam is great stuff, as you can 'dig' down into it for rivers and gullies - as was mentioned, don't use solvent-based paints as they'll melt the foam. Look in the Paint Department of the big-box DIYs like Lowe's or Home Depot; there will be literally gallons of paint going for cheap, and you'll usually be able to find shades in the colors you want. I cut up sheets of foam into modular tiles, and you can see these in action in the photos I have posted on my Photobucket page. Sawdust and latex house paint are your allies - and if you're like most of us, you have a relative with a home shop who'd be delighted to show off their skills and help you make things.
.
I have very little talent with crafts. But if I wanted to make a courtyard house (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6d/b9/0a/6db90a56ebcd7cdd8b96253d6e469f64.jpg), what materials would you recommend? I want the architecture to look convincing and to be somewhat historically accurate (at least the best I can do with the boys on the stuff I have on hand), but I am hoping not to spend twenty to fifty bucks each for the individual halls and walls.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918636I have very little talent with crafts. But if I wanted to make a courtyard house (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6d/b9/0a/6db90a56ebcd7cdd8b96253d6e469f64.jpg), what materials would you recommend? I want the architecture to look convincing and to be somewhat historically accurate (at least the best I can do with the boys on the stuff I have on hand), but I am hoping not to spend twenty to fifty bucks each for the individual halls and walls.
Understood! I limit myself to about the same amounts, basing my buying on how much time it would save me to buy something.
My thought on a courtyard house would be to look for a website on Asian architecture; I used to have a book full of side elevations of such buildings, and I would scan and print out the plans in the size I needed for the figures. Cut out the paper plans, and glue to the foamcore that was mentioned earlier; cut any needed doors, color in the plans (if they aren't already) and glue the laminated sheets together. Tile roofing is a little more finicky; glue the plans to cardstock and bend as needed for curved roofing. I model roofing as needed; if I need to get inside a building for a game, I tend to leave the roof off entirely and treat the building as a 'stage set'. About the only reason for roofing is when the players want to run around on them, and at that point a flat roof printed with tiling will work better in the game.
One side benefit: ask the boys to help color in the plans.
I'd also suggest looking on the Internet for card models; these are usually pretty cheap, look good, and are pretty easy to build. I got a huge set on DriveThruRPG - there's a Mayan city my Missus got me that's a lot of fun. If you can use a pair of scissors, you can do this... :)
Last year I helped a kid make a pre-fab paper model of Angkor Wat and that turned out really nice.
Here are some paper and wood kits to make Chinese buildings:
https://www.aliexpress.com/popular/beijing-construction.html
Some are likely too small, unless you go with smaller miniatures. You'd have to figure out the size you'd need... I'm assuming 28mm, which would make that layout you linked to really big on the table. If you found some of the ones where you print them yourselves, often they're free, you could adjust the size to fit.
As for the house, I don't know if this would help:
http://www.cadnav.com/3d-models/model-19102.html
Looking at the picture, a lot of the atmosphere comes from that curved roof. I would use something like cardboard (thinner card board) that I could bend. I would imitate the ribs by getting a couple of thicker pieces of cardboard, curving them to fit and gluing them in place. There wouldn't be very many of these, just enough to give an idea. For the support, I would cut some pieces of thicker cardboard to a template, and use these to curve the roof to. I suspect my village would have a lot of thatched roofs.
Any solid piece that needn't be opened can be made out of styrofoam, painted--so an outer defensive wall. Given all the big items that come packed in packing, finding suitable pieces shouldn't be too hard.
For anything that has to open up, the roof and the two kind-of triangular pieces can be made one piece, and the area below can be made out of a box.
This is a site put up by an alumnus from my university wargaming club. He mainly builds out of little tiny plaster blocks, but his articles on timber treatment and thatched roof are relevant here...http://ryan.skow.org/
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918467My setting is Song Dynasty roughly, but I will check this one out.
Out of curiosity, what year do you plan to set the game?
Quote from: Crabbyapples;918919Out of curiosity, what year do you plan to set the game?
It is a fantasy setting inspired by the Song Dynasty period. So there isn't a specific year.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918926It is a fantasy setting inspired by the Song Dynasty period. So there isn't a specific year.
Sounds like fun.
Do you plan to use Water Margin for inspiration?
Quote from: Crabbyapples;919669Sounds like fun.
Do you plan to use Water Margin for inspiration?
The Water Margin had some influence (I have a monk named Abbot Firebrand inspired by the Flowery Monk) but the chief sources of inspirations are wuxia films and series.
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I think between all the different places I can cobble together what I need (just looks like I may need to mind the scale so I don't get stuff that is unexpectedly the wrong size for what I am after). I am going to slowly work my way into the terrain aspect of this. I also decided to splurge a little and get some Dwarven Forge stuff to use as a base. The cavern set looks especially flexible for my purposes. So I may take the cavern pieces and combine it with some of the Chinese style dwelling houses and other elements people linked to, to make a Ancient Tomb Sect-type dungeon.
Here is one that uses a cut up cork board;
http://www.matakishi.com/makingachinesehouse.htm
That looks straight forward enough. Were I to try for the curved roof, I would substitute a thin cardboard, as I said, that I can bend, or paper, and I would probably take some old towel material and comb it flat to go for the thatched roof look.
Quote from: wombat1;920223Here is one that uses a cut up cork board;
http://www.matakishi.com/makingachinesehouse.htm
That looks straight forward enough. Were I to try for the curved roof, I would substitute a thin cardboard, as I said, that I can bend, or paper, and I would probably take some old towel material and comb it flat to go for the thatched roof look.
That looks really cool (and not terribly difficult). Is cork board something you can cut with an exacto knife?
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;920225That looks really cool (and not terribly difficult). Is cork board something you can cut with an exacto knife?
Cuts like butter. Just make sure that the blade is sharp and that you have a straight edge to run it against.
Shemek.
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;918926It is a fantasy setting inspired by the Song Dynasty period. So there isn't a specific year.
Well the Song is a golden opportunity to play up one of the most important "cultural tragedies," the Fall of the Northern Song (and the migration of that nobility to the Southern Song, who would later end up becoming identified as the Hakka people (or at least their largest refugee migration)). Lots of Chinese literature love to play up their stories at the advent of that "known tragedy," a foreshadowing technique to add looming pathos to the atmosphere.
Then we can bust out our roasted watermelon seeds and weep into our silk sleeves during glorious skirmishes, for it would be understood it shall all eventually be for naught. (But that might also be a touch self indulgent. :D)
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;920225That looks really cool (and not terribly difficult). Is cork board something you can cut with an exacto knife?
The first picture seems to show an exacto knife or something like, and its slightly larger cousin, I think called a utility knife, which can be found very inexpensively in any Walmart's or D-I-Y store.
Quote from: Opaopajr;920318Well the Song is a golden opportunity to play up one of the most important "cultural tragedies," the Fall of the Northern Song (and the migration of that nobility to the Southern Song, who would later end up becoming identified as the Hakka people (or at least their largest refugee migration)). Lots of Chinese literature love to play up their stories at the advent of that "known tragedy," a foreshadowing technique to add looming pathos to the atmosphere.
Then we can bust out our roasted watermelon seeds and weep into our silk sleeves during glorious skirmishes, for it would be understood it shall all eventually be for naught. (But that might also be a touch self indulgent. :D)
The collapse of the Song dynasty (first in the north, and then when the Mongols came along and rounded it off by taking the whole fucking empire for themselves) was really the most culturally devastating event of Chinese history. It was a turning point, and I feel quite sure that it was the point at which China basically lost its real dynamism as a civilization.