In more positive news, the first 10,000 (of 19,000) Kanji dice have arrived:

Quote from: vytzka;585938So, what do you think they're hiding exactly? 700 pages of Sorcerer rules printed over and over? A full page color picture of Andy's penis? Just a blank book?

It might be any of the above, who knows? But more probably what they're trying to hide from the general public is a Storygamer agenda; because they know most people don't actually want to play, much less buy, a storygame, and so the best way to push the Storygamer agenda is to lie and pretend that storygames are regular RPGs.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;586468It might be any of the above, who knows? But more probably what they're trying to hide from the general public is a Storygamer agenda; because they know most people don't actually want to play, much less buy, a storygame, and so the best way to push the Storygamer agenda is to lie and pretend that storygames are regular RPGs.

RPGPundit

If that's the case, I'll happily join you - and I've spent money on it, so I've got a reason to be angry. I'm expecting an RPG, and will be disappointed if I don't get one.

We'll see.

Quote from: RPGPundit;586468It might be any of the above, who knows? But more probably what they're trying to hide from the general public is a Storygamer agenda; because they know most people don't actually want to play, much less buy, a storygame, and so the best way to push the Storygamer agenda is to lie and pretend that storygames are regular RPGs.

RPGPundit

I'm just trying to determine your standards for a Storygame, Pundit. Do you consider Exalted to be one? A fairly standard and setting-agnostic (all the wank about constellations nonwithstanding) stat, skill and action resolution system tied to setting simulation mechanics but with some bonuses for good roleplay?

Quote from: RPGPundit;586468It might be any of the above, who knows? But more probably what they're trying to hide from the general public is a Storygamer agenda; because they know most people don't actually want to play, much less buy, a storygame, and so the best way to push the Storygamer agenda is to lie and pretend that storygames are regular RPGs.

So, its knee-jerk hysteria at the RPG containing something non-conventional. Got it.

As a matter of interest:
- how many RPGs are sent out for review 4 months before release; and
- how many RPGs that are Kickstarted are sent out for review before being Kickstarted?

I can't recall many. I am curious why you are holding TBZ up to such a high standard of integrity (other than that the reason I give above) which seems the sole basis on which you are accusing those involved of being fraudulent.

Quote from: Ladybird;586488If that's the case, I'll happily join you - and I've spent money on it, so I've got a reason to be angry. I'm expecting an RPG, and will be disappointed if I don't get one.

We'll see.

And soon according to the last update. The low quality PDFs are said to be due shortly

Given that TBZ was written by a Japanese writer in 1995 to 1996 as a setting for TORG, I would be blown away to find it was a full blown story game. To quote Highlander:"It'd be like finding a 747 made a thousand years before the Wright brothers flew."

Quote from: Skywalker;586508So, its knee-jerk hysteria at the RPG containing something non-conventional. Got it.

As a matter of interest:
- how many RPGs are sent out for review 4 months before release; and
- how many RPGs that are Kickstarted are sent out for review before being Kickstarted?

I can't recall many. I am curious why you are holding TBZ up to such a high standard of integrity (other than that the reason I give above) which seems the sole basis on which you are accusing those involved of being fraudulent.

It does sound almost like sour grapes for not being sent a review book?

As for Pundit (or anyone involved in this debacle), I would like to give another question. Would playing D&D but awarding player characters XP solely for roleplay/being entertaining instead of killing monsters and achieving goals make it a Storygame?

(I am not asking these questions at random)

Quote from: vytzka;586504I'm just trying to determine your standards for a Storygame, Pundit. Do you consider Exalted to be one? A fairly standard and setting-agnostic (all the wank about constellations nonwithstanding) stat, skill and action resolution system tied to setting simulation mechanics but with some bonuses for good roleplay?

No, Exalted is an RPG. Not one I consider particularly good, but its definitely an RPG (as are all of WW's World of Darkness games).

RPGPundit

Quote from: vytzka;586646It does sound almost like sour grapes for not being sent a review book?

As for Pundit (or anyone involved in this debacle), I would like to give another question. Would playing D&D but awarding player characters XP solely for roleplay/being entertaining instead of killing monsters and achieving goals make it a Storygame?

(I am not asking these questions at random)

Awarding XP for actual roleplay? No, that wouldn't make it a storygame.

If you were awarding XP for something else that was being mislabeled as "roleplay", for example "furthering the story as a whole" rather than roleplay as "effectively playing your character", then that might be a different scenario.

RPGPundit

TBZ is not particularly concerned about The Story as a Thing. The main things are characters and the things they value (Fates - you could say it's a mix of "personality mechanic" and "Buddhism mechanic" and I'm sorry for that sounding too hipstery but it is true as far as I can understand. Remember that it is a Japanese game.). When players are roleplaying in character, working towards their Fates or just being entertaining in a non-grating manner they receive what is (sort of) experience points.

A big thing about this and something you are well expected to dislike, Pundit, is that those points can be given by other players as well as the game master.

However, I would like to say something to people who are worried about this being a time traveling Forge game, TBZ has a strong GM role and is pretty traditional about it. Since it's a big thing for me personally (I don't like games with backseat driving being enforced mechanically) I am confident that it should be a game palatable to the old crowd.

Pundit, I think that you're simply afraid that TBZ will be fun and sell well.  Except for it's scene framing device (which is used in other trad RPGs), TBZ is a fairly trad rpg.  Badmouthing a competing product usually doesn't harm sales of it.

Fuck me i've come across some paranoid shit in my time, but this takes the fucking cake.

Quote from: Skywalker;585951In more positive news, the first 10,000 (of 19,000) Kanji dice have arrived:

Mother of God.

Quote from: vytzka;586699TBZ is not particularly concerned about The Story as a Thing. The main things are characters and the things they value (Fates - you could say it's a mix of "personality mechanic" and "Buddhism mechanic" and I'm sorry for that sounding too hipstery but it is true as far as I can understand. Remember that it is a Japanese game.). When players are roleplaying in character, working towards their Fates or just being entertaining in a non-grating manner they receive what is (sort of) experience points.

A big thing about this and something you are well expected to dislike, Pundit, is that those points can be given by other players as well as the game master.

And what stops the whole thing from being just a circlewank of players trading XP with each other to get what they want?

RPGPundit

Quote from: Kaiu Keiichi;586743Pundit, I think that you're simply afraid that TBZ will be fun and sell well.  

Why would I be afraid of that?

QuoteExcept for it's scene framing device (which is used in other trad RPGs), TBZ is a fairly trad rpg.

So thus far on the list, other than the scene framing and the experience/reward system, its a "fairly trad rpg"...

QuoteBadmouthing a competing product usually doesn't harm sales of it.

That's very true. For example, despite the past two weeks of repeated Storygamer-Swine character-assassination and an outright brutal assault on myself and Precis intermedia, Lords of Olympus has done extremely well, for example.

RPGPundit