Quote from: RPGPunditYou should give it a try. It could have been so much more and so much better than it has turned out to be, in part because Green Ronin never wanted to do this product line (the product line they WANTED to do was Blue Rose); and I think they are unconsciously sabotaging their own game line to try to prove that people like me were wrong.   At least, their craptacular choice of settings certainly would point that way, as would some of the changes they've made to some rules.

Dude, I think the idea that they'd sabotage their own financial wellbeing, even subconsciously, out of some subliminal desire to prove you wrong is simultaneously one of the most stupid and one of the most baselessly self-aggrandizing ideas you've yet written.  You need to pull your head out, it's stuff like this that makes many people discount what you say.

But yeah, the settings do suck.

KoOS

Quote from: SigmundI have to agree with the opinions about the settings. The only one that has impressed me at all is Caliphate Nights. There are lots of great ideas for settings put forth by posters on the True20 settings board, and Freeport is being adapted for True20. I'm personally working towards adapting Birthright to True20 myself. The lack of a major setting for True20 is offset by how easy it is to adapt other settings to it IMO. I might also adapt Harn to True20 as well, as it seems to me to be the perfect system for it (for those of us who like the setting, but not the system designed for it).

Might I see that Birthright when your done? Birthright remains one of my favorite settings. (I've done Gurps for it, and started a card powered version to combine my love of Saga and the war cards in a wierd thing..) I even converted Gorgon to M&M (Honestly though low level M&M fits quite well, since fundamentally blood abilities are low key "superpowers")

And I do agree on Caliphate Nights.

Sadly the current version of True 20 simplifies skills a little too much. Blue Rose didn't and IIRC even the first PDF was better. Just having a select number of skills at max value doesn't ring well with some character advancement. If I pick up a skill later, I'll immediately become master of it if my level is high enough. Meh.

Quote from: SosthenesSadly the current version of True 20 simplifies skills a little too much. Blue Rose didn't and IIRC even the first PDF was better. Just having a select number of skills at max value doesn't ring well with some character advancement. If I pick up a skill later, I'll immediately become master of it if my level is high enough. Meh.

You've misread the current rules.  It is only at first level that skills are at 'max value' (i.e. your skill ranks = number of skills you know + 3).

At levels 2+ PCs can distribute skill ranks like any other d20 game.

The reason for forcing PCs to 'max out' skill ranks at first level is to force some 'focus' on them (important since there are no 'class' and 'cross-class' skills in True20), and to maintain game balance (otherwise PCs will spread their skill ranks out too much).

Quote from: King of Old SchoolDude, I think the idea that they'd sabotage their own financial wellbeing, even subconsciously, out of some subliminal desire to prove you wrong is simultaneously one of the most stupid and one of the most baselessly self-aggrandizing ideas you've yet written.  You need to pull your head out, it's stuff like this that makes many people discount what you say.

But yeah, the settings do suck.

KoOS

I agree that this line of 'reasoning' by the Pundit is absurd.

If they really wanted to sabotage the line, why would they produce such an excellent Bestiary for True20?

Why would they be putting out a Pocketbook version of the core rules?

Why would they be revising their Freeport setting for True20 (especially since it had previously been strongly tied to d20)?

The belief that GR is deliberately sabotaging True20 in order to spite Pundit/Nisarg is not only delusional to begin with, but is falsified by GR's actual production schedule.

Thanks God.

Quote from: AkrasiaYou've misread the current rules.  It is only at first level that skills are at 'max value' (i.e. your skill ranks = number of skills you know + 3).

Gee, you're right. I think I actually got it all bass ackwards, the first PDF had that "known skills at max rank", not the hardcover edition...
Attending two meetings on a single day does that to me

I agree with the consensus view here that, of the settings included in the core book, only 'Caliphate Nights' is worth looking at.

Strangly, most of the settings included in the optional book (I can't remember what it's called) look far more interesting, in particular 'Land of the Crane' and 'Bloodthrone' (I don't know much about the latter, but I'm assuming that it is a gritty, savage 'Conan-esque' setting).

The Core Book would have been much more useful had GR included some general information on different genres to help the GM/Narrator (e.g. info for fantasy, science fiction, and modern settings).

Quote from: AkrasiaI

The Core Book would have been much more useful had GR included some general information on different genres to help the GM/Narrator (e.g. info for fantasy, science fiction, and modern settings).

More SF materials (equipment, gear, how to do cybernetics), more sample backgrounds: Like  Human, Low G; Human, High G--how hard would that have been to include?

What I would have liked to see in the "Worlds of Adventure" section of the corebook:

1) A steampunk/magitech fantasy setting that is basically a mishmash of Iron Kingdoms and Eberron, with some overt Pirates of the Caribbean and Hayao Miyazaki (mostly Nausicaa/Laputa/Mononoke) influences for flavour.  I don't care that it's been done in d20, I don't care that it's unoriginal, because it's playable fun and it could be (a) more consistent and less "let's shoehorn in every bit of D&D content we can find" than Eberron, and (b) less mechanically dodgy than IK.  Plus it would make a great home for Freeport.

2) A modern cinematic-action setting that is basically Feng Shui with the serial numbers filed off and the more stupid/slapstick bits removed.  Again, not terribly original but it's playable fun that hasn't been done in d20 AFAIK other than the extra-crunchy Spycraft... plus, Spycraft doesn't include any native paranormal content like tranimals or sorcerors or cyborg demons.  Also, my cinematic-action setting wouldn't include any stupid sections telling gamers to read GQ and pester their local tailor for fashion tips.

3) A "classic" SF setting inspired predominantly by Star Frontiers and Traveller, with generous helpings of the useful bits of Star*Drive, Halo (yes, that Halo... SHUT UP) and Firefly and with a huge dollop of Richard K. Morgan's "Altered Carbon" novels.  For the third time, wholly unoriginal but playable fun.  This could include much of the SF content that Silverlion was talking about.

That's it -- no fourth setting.  All 3 of mine would get a uniform 24 pages.

KoOS

There were two problems with the settings in both books: first, most of them were very ill-suited to the True20 rules.  I think the general idea was to say "look how many different things you can do with this system!!" but in fact it ended up ignoring the kinds of settings that would have been better suited /more natural to True20.

Second, most of the settings presented were highly derivative.  You have essentially direct ripoffs of L5R/Rokugan, Little Fears, Delta Green, Fading Suns, etc etc. without providing anything new that made them seem more original.

Just about the only setting that didn't suffer from either one or the other problem (or indeed, both) was Caliphate Nights.

RPGPundit

This thread reminds me that I've been wondering if the T20 Beastiary is a good buy, or if it's good enough to simply use the conversions in the back of the corebook on my monster manuals. Anyone have an opinion?

Quote from: JamesVThis thread reminds me that I've been wondering if the T20 Beastiary is a good buy, or if it's good enough to simply use the conversions in the back of the corebook on my monster manuals. Anyone have an opinion?

It's a good buy, IMHO, at least as a PDF. You'll find a lot of conversions, plus new monsters, powers, weapons (well,the ones they insanely decided to leave out of the core book, anyway), feats and templates (among them one for armed groups). Rules for monster design are also included, IIRC.

Anyone ever tried to merge True20 and Spycraft?

Quote from: RPGPunditThere were two problems with the settings in both books: first, most of them were very ill-suited to the True20 rules.  I think the general idea was to say "look how many different things you can do with this system!!" but in fact it ended up ignoring the kinds of settings that would have been better suited /more natural to True20.

Second, most of the settings presented were highly derivative.  You have essentially direct ripoffs of L5R/Rokugan, Little Fears, Delta Green, Fading Suns, etc etc. without providing anything new that made them seem more original.

I both agree and disagree with you.  I agree that the settings (well, the ones in the corebook anyway) are ill-suited to the True20 rules and are thus mechanically awkward.

I disagree that being derivative is a problem.  Frex, Dark*Matter is pretty derivative of Delta Green but it still has plenty of fans because it's done well.  IMO the problem with the settings is that they feel like poor knockoffs of the source material.  I wouldn't care that Lux Aeternum is a knockoff of Fading Suns if I thought it was any good...

KoOS

Quote from: SosthenesAnyone ever tried to merge True20 and Spycraft?

I've thought long and hard about importing a bunch of SC feats and class abilities into True20, but IMO a true "merger" wouldn't really be feasible.  They're very different animals.

KoOS