A somewhat local game shop has a shrinkwrapped boxed set for MERP 2nd Edition (in German) along with some supplements. That's noteworthy because it must have been sitting there unsold for a couple decades, and would be an interesting purchase just for that. But... I don't want to only buy it for that novelty.
So, what can I expect? If you've played it, what did you like? What didn't you like?
MERP was our game of choice in the 90s and I ran probably my longest campaign using it. So I like the system quite a bit even if it doesn't always feel exactly like the books. That's because the magic is much flashier, but if you use the optional Shadow detection rules, players will be cautious in using their magic. But I think one very smart move on ICE's part was making the default era of the game the mid Third Age (ca. 1640), about 1300 years before "The Hobbit." This allows one to play pretty freely without worrying too much about canon. But you could still interact with Gandalf, Elrond, the Ringwraiths, etc. ICE did an amazing job fleshing out the various areas of Middle Earth, even if they often stretched or ignored canon. For example, they have detailed backstories for all the Ringwraiths, which I though was great. Their maps were generally excellent and if you want to dungeon crawl through Goblintown or Mount Gundabad, you could. Or you could battle cultists of Sauron, or pirates on the high seas.
As for mechanics, it gets a lot of flak for being complicated, but it's not. There are just lots of tables. It was based on the much more detailed Rolemaster system, which is also chart heavy, but not actually that complicated. I find MERP makes much more sense intuitively than, any edition of "The One Ring," which substitutes roll playing for roleplaying at every opportunity and tries to slavishly reproduce the books.
It's also famous for its lethality. It has detailed critical hit charts and because healing magic is not as available as in D&D, you'll likely have some maimed PCs. Our group lost about half the party over a 3 year campaign and among the survivors was a one-eyed mage, a one-footed bard, and a one-handed scout. But that was part of the fun. And two of our players were hard core Middle Earth fans so they were way into the setting. Not sure if it would be as much fun for casual Tolkien fans. And there's a lot of book keeping associated with XP, character advancement and the like.
I own at least one version of every module ever published for the MERP system and I'll never sell that stuff even if I never play it again because I still like reading them and often crib the maps or adventure ideas for other games. More recently I converted a few adventures over to OSE and my players loved them. They just don't want to play anything that's slower at the table than OSE or S&W at this point so that's kind of where we are. We tried "The One Ring" 2e and hated it, so I sold all my books.
If you speak German and it's reasonably priced then I think it's a must-buy. You should give it a try and see if it's to your taste. I agree with Persimmon's comments above. I do think it's a bit complex for my taste, but after all these years I'd be up for giving it another go, and that says a lot. Of course the supplements can't be beat, so my advice is to snatch it up quickly!
MERP is a really tight book with loads of content. The only thing it's short on is Middle Earth setting material. It's pretty much all rules and charts. The charts are okay but best replaced with Arms Law and Spell Law as the critical hits get repetative and the spell lists are pretty limited.
I think we had a good time tripping invisible turtles with this games, but it was just too many tables for me.
Quote from: Persimmon on March 29, 2023, 04:26:25 PM
MERP was our game of choice in the 90s and I ran probably my longest campaign using it. So I like the system quite a bit even if it doesn't always feel exactly like the books. That's because the magic is much flashier, but if you use the optional Shadow detection rules, players will be cautious in using their magic.
Quote from: Persimmon on March 29, 2023, 04:26:25 PM
I own at least one version of every module ever published for the MERP system and I'll never sell that stuff even if I never play it again because I still like reading them and often crib the maps or adventure ideas for other games. More recently I converted a few adventures over to OSE and my players loved them. They just don't want to play anything that's slower at the table than OSE or S&W at this point so that's kind of where we are. We tried "The One Ring" 2e and hated it, so I sold all my books.
I own MERP but never played it, though I did play Rolemaster for a time. You mention about the system not feeling like the books -- which is exactly the impression I had of the system. I don't know The One Ring. I did try Decipher's "Lord of the Rings RPG", which was clearly a rush job and unplaytested, but they did try to put in more of the flavor of Middle Earth, particularly in the magic.
I am curious what MERP adventuring is like overall. What were PCs like, and what were they doing?
Quote from: jhkim on March 29, 2023, 09:55:58 PM
I own MERP but never played it, though I did play Rolemaster for a time. You mention about the system not feeling like the books -- which is exactly the impression I had of the system. I don't know The One Ring. I did try Decipher's "Lord of the Rings RPG", which was clearly a rush job and unplaytested, but they did try to put in more of the flavor of Middle Earth, particularly in the magic.
I am curious what MERP adventuring is like overall. What were PCs like, and what were they doing?
The authors really loved Dumas. Many (if not most) of the "Sitting around in a tavern waiting for a Patron scenarios" involved someone looking for "Men of discretion and honor who are willing to fix a great wrong." IOW retrieving blackmail material, convincing "Love 'em & Leave 'em" types to skip the Love 'em part, etc. Those are the ones that stick in my memory.
Quote from: jhkim on March 29, 2023, 09:55:58 PM
Quote from: Persimmon on March 29, 2023, 04:26:25 PM
MERP was our game of choice in the 90s and I ran probably my longest campaign using it. So I like the system quite a bit even if it doesn't always feel exactly like the books. That's because the magic is much flashier, but if you use the optional Shadow detection rules, players will be cautious in using their magic.
Quote from: Persimmon on March 29, 2023, 04:26:25 PM
I own at least one version of every module ever published for the MERP system and I'll never sell that stuff even if I never play it again because I still like reading them and often crib the maps or adventure ideas for other games. More recently I converted a few adventures over to OSE and my players loved them. They just don't want to play anything that's slower at the table than OSE or S&W at this point so that's kind of where we are. We tried "The One Ring" 2e and hated it, so I sold all my books.
I own MERP but never played it, though I did play Rolemaster for a time. You mention about the system not feeling like the books -- which is exactly the impression I had of the system. I don't know The One Ring. I did try Decipher's "Lord of the Rings RPG", which was clearly a rush job and unplaytested, but they did try to put in more of the flavor of Middle Earth, particularly in the magic.
I am curious what MERP adventuring is like overall. What were PCs like, and what were they doing?
They had larger campaign books and modules consisting of shorter adventures that might or might not have been linked. These could range from simple missions to defend a caravan or investigate a theft to battling Sauronic cultists, which was a recurrent theme. But I thought they generally did a good job of creating adventures for all levels so even low level characters could tangle with agents of the Shadow. And high level characters could sneak into Mordor or Dul Guldur on spy or rescue missions. PCs were pretty close to D&D characters of the era--6 or 7 major classes. They did have a wide variety of Mannish cultures to choose from with culturally specific skills that added some flavor. The modules had pretty interesting setting details on local culture, flora, and fauna that could be highlighted by the GM. But adventure styles were often fairly close to D&D tropes with a Middle earth gloss. I liked that, but some prefer hewing closer to the feel of the books. For me, I just want to game in Middle Earth, not replay LOTR 20 times.
Am I understanding it right that if I get just the core boxed set I'm getting a kind of Rolemaster-Lite, and if I really want the (somewhat non-canon) setting lore I would need to get the supplements?
The updated version of MERP is HARP (High Adventure Role Playing). The MERP supplements and adventures don't really have much to do with Tolkien and you are probably better off putting them into a world of your own making, perhaps using rules such as Against the Darkmaster for this purpose. It's similar to Rolemaster.
Quote from: migo on March 30, 2023, 05:15:24 AM
Am I understanding it right that if I get just the core boxed set I'm getting a kind of Rolemaster-Lite, and if I really want the (somewhat non-canon) setting lore I would need to get the supplements?
Pretty much, yes.
Any supplements you would in particular recommend? I don't remember off hand all the ones they have there, but if I know one or two to pick up along with the boxed set that would be good.
It is my understanding that the more recent "Against the Dark Master" rpg is based on the MERP system, and many like the game.
Quote from: migo on March 30, 2023, 07:00:42 AM
Any supplements you would in particular recommend? I don't remember off hand all the ones they have there, but if I know one or two to pick up along with the boxed set that would be good.
I would suggest picking a region of Middle Earth that you want to be based in and buy supplements for that area. We started with Laketown & Mirkwood and that was perfect because there are lots of adventures set in that area, including a big Mirkwood campaign book, a Laketown campaign book, a Dol Guldur campaign book, and River Running, which has a bunch of adventures, most pretty good. The Grey Mountains book, set just north of Mirkwood, has a bunch of dragon lairs, orc holds, and dwarf holds if that's your thing. For beginning adventurers "Denizens of the Dark Wood" is a good module, and "The Necromancer's Lieutenant" is a good series of adventures for levels 3-6.
I'll add that there are actually several Mirkwood Campaign books. For 1e there are northern and southern books, then they released a combined book. For 2e they released a combined book. Content varies slightly across the books. There's also a site book devoted to Thranduil's Halls. Not great, but we used it.
Of course you could pick another region, even Far Harad, if that was your thing. They published one campaign for the Fourth Age, called "Palantir Quest," if you want to do a sort of sequel to LOTR. And there's a very good campaign book on the Kin Strife in Gondor, ca. 1440 Third Age.
Quote from: GamerforHire on March 30, 2023, 07:59:39 AM
It is my understanding that the more recent "Against the Dark Master" rpg is based on the MERP system, and many like the game.
It looks good, but we found it slower and clunkier than MERP, especially the slow and convoluted character creation process, which is made worse by poor explanations and errors in the math for some of their pre-gens. After struggling through this process we decided that we could just play MERP if that's the experience we want.
Quote from: migo on March 29, 2023, 03:20:14 PM
A somewhat local game shop has a shrinkwrapped boxed set for MERP 2nd Edition (in German) along with some supplements.
Not what you are asking, but if it's a game shop I assume they know what they have got and are pricing appropriately? Just in case you could flip it on eBay.
Quote from: GamerforHire on March 30, 2023, 07:59:39 AM
It is my understanding that the more recent "Against the Dark Master" rpg is based on the MERP system, and many like the game.
Against the Dark Master is on sale at DTRPG today (30 Mar) for $5.00.
It's a gateway drug to Rolemaster and I suppose it's adequate as such.While it's an impressive piece of compression, I always feel MERP really isn't enough more than D&D to really show the strengths of the system. In many ways its the downsides of the system without the upsides.
Quote from: Marchand on March 30, 2023, 10:44:07 AM
Quote from: migo on March 29, 2023, 03:20:14 PM
A somewhat local game shop has a shrinkwrapped boxed set for MERP 2nd Edition (in German) along with some supplements.
Not what you are asking, but if it's a game shop I assume they know what they have got and are pricing appropriately? Just in case you could flip it on eBay.
Seems like they just haven't lowered the price since it was originally published. It looks in line with what you would expect an equivalent new release to be.
Quote from: David Johansen on March 31, 2023, 12:05:54 AM
It's a gateway drug to Rolemaster and I suppose it's adequate as such.While it's an impressive piece of compression, I always feel MERP really isn't enough more than D&D to really show the strengths of the system. In many ways its the downsides of the system without the upsides.
What are the downsides?
The downsides are charts and math. And the average gamer's absolute terror response to double digit numbers. It's not really all that complex. d100 open ended on 96-100, check a chart.
The upsides are detail, structure, and just the sheer volume of stuff. It also handles high level play well. The open ended rolls, diminishing returns on skill ranks, and availability of access to spells from other classes all help to keep things functional when you've got characters over twentieth level.
One thing they did a lot in MERP was give NPCs classes or spells from Rolemaster. So I ended up buying the RM spellbook to use in play, which worked fine. They also bent the rules for high level NPCs like Galadriel, etc., by giving them all kinds of unique magic items that negated critical hits and the like. I presume this was to ensure that they survived till the end of the Third Age.
I still have dreams of running a high level MERP game using some of the prominent NPCs just to see how they are in play. One scenario would be the White Council going into Dol Guldur like in The Hobbit movies. Imagine a party with Saruman, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel, and Radagast up against Sauron and several ringwraiths, not to mention the other rather cool and unique monsters ICE put into Dol Guldur like Shelob's daughter and a demon-werewolf jailer?
Or running a spy mission into Mordor led by Aragorn and the twin sons of Elrond? Pretty cool.