My favorite genre is Anime Mecha.  In fact my start in RPG's was Palladium Book's RoboTech Macross. 

Mekton Zeta was always one of those games I meant to get into, but never did. 

I own a few of the PDF's, but haven't had the time to go thru and read them.  Is it a good game?   Are the rules fun?   And which book do you start with? 

I'll be real.  I'll most likely never get the chance to play it.  Nobody I know has the interest in this genre that I do.  The most likely scenario is to play using rules lite games like Tiny-D6 Mecha and Monsters, but set in the Mekton universe.

I think the height of the line was Mekton II (not on Drivethrurpg). It could do something like OC Gundam or Macross (Robotech) out of the box.
If you wanted to go smaller scale, with bots that transform, get Roadstriker II (also not on Drivethrurpg). If you want rules for starships and fleet battles, get Mekton Empire. If you want to get a more expansive construction system, get the Mekton Techbook. I freakin love the Techbook. The illustrations are primo, and it has rules for scaling and size and weight efficency that make the system really flexible.

Mekton Zeta baked all these concepts into the core rules. The issue with that, IMO, is that the rules got heavily front loaded, and you might only need a few of them.

If you can't find a copy of Mekton II, Zeta will work, but you'll have to parse all the rules and pick out what you want and especially what you don't want.

Mekton II and Mekton Zeta are my go-to Mecha genre games. They are the only games I have found and played so far that can successfully emulate the feel of giant robots from anime or manga.

Like Ratman_tf said, in Zeta the rules are front loaded into the book and it goes light on setting but those same rules are very intuitive and make the action of the game very smooth. There is a Mekton Zeta Techbook out there that dials the construction systems up to 11, but it starts getting ridiculously complex. That being the downside, the upside is that you can create mecha ranging from Evangelion types to Gundams to Macross variables to Transformers to Boomers from Bubblegum Crisis. It really is that good.

It is also compatible with Cyberpunk because the systems are so similar. Conversion rules for Cyberpunk 2020 (2013? I'm at work and don't have my books handy) are in Roadstriker II.

Mekton Zeta is my favorite of the series and is based on the Interlock system which is used in Cyberpunk2020.  It's really simple at its core with d10 + stat + mods vs a target number or used in an opposed roll.  Re-roll and add if you get a 10.  It has a life path system for fleshing out character back stories.  And, a professions template system which is kind of like Traveller's terms but without all the dice rolling. Mek creation is mainly à la carte where you buy stuff and fill up a mech template.  The game is super easy to hack, my last game that I ran was a mash up of GI Joe, Starship Troopers, Men in Black, with X-Com.

Mekton Zeta Plus is NOT a stand alone game but an advanced/super crunchy mek design with additional info on running campaigns and other settings.  I was able to accurately model A-10s, YF-23s, and experimental Osprey's with real world stats and the game mechanics.  The design system is not everyone's cup of tea, but it allows you to model so much including mechs from other games.  If you want to roll your own gear and settings, it is a powerful tool kit.

Since it is CP2020 compatible, source books like Guns, Guns, Guns can handy if you like the gun porn of a modern setting.

As for playing or running MZ, there is the magic of solo play using oracles such as the Mythic GM Emulator v2 or interacting with Chat AI (note I don't consider AI to be a GM replacement, but it does well in the oracle role.)  I've done that with a number of games gathering dust on my shelf/hard drive.

The PDF's I have are:

1.  Mekton Alpha
2.  Mekton Empires
3.  Mekton Tech book
4.  Mekton Zeta
5.  Mekton Jovian Chronicles conversion book

So, I should really get Mekton II?

Which book has the best lore?

Quote from: weirdguy564 on December 14, 2024, 08:27:05 PMThe PDF's I have are:

1.  Mekton Alpha
2.  Mekton Empires
3.  Mekton Tech book
4.  Mekton Zeta
5.  Mekton Jovian Chronicles conversion book

So, I should really get Mekton II?

Which book has the best lore?

I reccomend Mekton II as a better starting point, but Zeta will work.
The best lore book, IMO, is the adventure Operation Rimfire. It emulates an anime series. The default setting is the planet Algol, which happens to be a forgotten outpost of the greater Empire. Over the course of the adventure, the characters learn that their planet is just part of a galactic empire with an unknown alien threat looming. I always got the impression that the Algol setting was supposed to run like that. Stat out with the planet Algol and it's politics and wars and such, and eventually "graduate" to an epic Empire campaign.

I have Mekton II pretty sure and definitely have Zeta or Zeta Plus.
I also have Roadstriker, Empire and the Tech book.

Zeta is pretty good really. But it collects alot from the expansions into one system. That is good and it can be also a steeper learning curve.

It is a very versatile system and can cover everything from power armour to transforming starships. The sweet spot though is the fairly common 50ft tall mechs you see in alot of older anime. Gundam, AB Dunbine, SDF Macross, Galient, SoS Dougram, and many more. Can even do combiners.

wotc way back made a try at their own DIY mecha system for 3e/d20 Modern. Not bad really. But the DM has to do most of the heavy lifting. But does lend well to building on and tinkering with what they presented. Mecha Crusade from the last few issues of Polyhedron.

Personally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

I recently picked up Mekton Zeta and Mekton Plus (Advanced Technical Manual), and I'm liking it. But I confess: am too short on time and energy to build up a bunch of mecha for the campaign(s) I have in mind. Is there an online resource for either a: mech construction, or b: a big repository of designs?

Laziness FTW!

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 11:06:25 AMPersonally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

To be fair A reflex or agility being a god stat is an easy trap to slip in too. Especially given that mecha anime of the time particularly gundam and a few other mecha anime would tend to give the idea that reflexes are the prime requisite to be an ace pilot.

Quote from: kosmos1214 on December 15, 2024, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 11:06:25 AMPersonally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

To be fair A reflex or agility being a god stat is an easy trap to slip in too. Especially given that mecha anime of the time particularly gundam and a few other mecha anime would tend to give the idea that reflexes are the prime requisite to be an ace pilot.

I agree its an easy trap, but it's disappointing to see no efforts made to dig out from it. Zeta just made things worse by adding maneuver pools based on your Reflexes.

For an example of a better stat distribution I recommend checking out Jovian Chronicles using the Silhouette System that spreads key Mecha operation skills across different attributes so a party might have the maneuvering ace, the sharpshooter, the melee expert, etc. instead of one high score making you the best at everything.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: kosmos1214 on December 15, 2024, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 11:06:25 AMPersonally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

To be fair A reflex or agility being a god stat is an easy trap to slip in too. Especially given that mecha anime of the time particularly gundam and a few other mecha anime would tend to give the idea that reflexes are the prime requisite to be an ace pilot.

I agree its an easy trap, but it's disappointing to see no efforts made to dig out from it. Zeta just made things worse by adding maneuver pools based on your Reflexes.

For an example of a better stat distribution I recommend checking out Jovian Chronicles using the Silhouette System that spreads key Mecha operation skills across different attributes so a party might have the maneuvering ace, the sharpshooter, the melee expert, etc. instead of one high score making you the best at everything.

It should be noted that Jovian Chronicles began as a campaign setting for Mekton II.

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 15, 2024, 01:11:31 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: kosmos1214 on December 15, 2024, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 11:06:25 AMPersonally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

To be fair A reflex or agility being a god stat is an easy trap to slip in too. Especially given that mecha anime of the time particularly gundam and a few other mecha anime would tend to give the idea that reflexes are the prime requisite to be an ace pilot.

I agree its an easy trap, but it's disappointing to see no efforts made to dig out from it. Zeta just made things worse by adding maneuver pools based on your Reflexes.

For an example of a better stat distribution I recommend checking out Jovian Chronicles using the Silhouette System that spreads key Mecha operation skills across different attributes so a party might have the maneuvering ace, the sharpshooter, the melee expert, etc. instead of one high score making you the best at everything.

It should be noted that Jovian Chronicles began as a campaign setting for Mekton II.

It did, and I always liked both it and "The Europa Incident" supplement. My only point here is that Dream Pod 9 managed to take a lesson from Mekton II that Zeta didn't.

The easiest fix I found for Mekton's stat problem back when I was playing regularly was to just remove them entirely and use only the skills and turn anything that only relied on attributes into a skill (ex. Personal Hits and lifting capacity were both based on your build... so those elements became lifting and toughness skills).

Depending on the particular genre you could buy skills above 10 to sub in for attributes being absent (grittier settings we just kept capped at 10 since opposed exploding d10+skill checks had enough variability to make it feel dangerous (when typical skill ranges were 6-7 for vets and 8-9 for elites and 10 for best of the best) in a way that the base rules didn't capture (i.e. the rookie with his Reflexes 10 + 4-5 skills outflying even well skilled vets with Reflexes 6 and Piloting 7 isn't a thing in all mecha genres).

I think it worth noting that overall Mekton is easily the best Mecha genre game around. That excellence though does make the areas that are weaker pop more than they would in a more mediocre game engine.

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 01:58:51 PM

Quote from: jeff37923 on December 15, 2024, 01:11:31 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 01:05:26 PM

Quote from: kosmos1214 on December 15, 2024, 12:19:46 PM

Quote from: Chris24601 on December 15, 2024, 11:06:25 AMPersonally, I think the Mekton II era material, while not quite as intricate as you can get with Mekton Zeta, also lacks some of the problems that crept into Zeta (the maneuver pool particularly).

The biggest issue every iteration of Mekton has is that Reflexes isn't just a super-stat, it is the only meaningful attribute for all forms of combat and provides outsized advantages to those who have it (if you're doing point buy and don't max it you are literally gimping yoursef).

Given its importance it could really stand to be split into three stats... coordination (needed for piloting, balance and hand-to-hand), reaction time (initiative, evasive actions), and spatial awareness (ranged attacks).

Either that or certain mecha and combat skills offloaded to other attributes so that maxing one attribute doesn't make you the best at all things mecha combat (at least in a system where the focus is mecha combat).

To be fair A reflex or agility being a god stat is an easy trap to slip in too. Especially given that mecha anime of the time particularly gundam and a few other mecha anime would tend to give the idea that reflexes are the prime requisite to be an ace pilot.

I agree its an easy trap, but it's disappointing to see no efforts made to dig out from it. Zeta just made things worse by adding maneuver pools based on your Reflexes.

For an example of a better stat distribution I recommend checking out Jovian Chronicles using the Silhouette System that spreads key Mecha operation skills across different attributes so a party might have the maneuvering ace, the sharpshooter, the melee expert, etc. instead of one high score making you the best at everything.

It should be noted that Jovian Chronicles began as a campaign setting for Mekton II.

It did, and I always liked both it and "The Europa Incident" supplement. My only point here is that Dream Pod 9 managed to take a lesson from Mekton II that Zeta didn't.

The easiest fix I found for Mekton's stat problem back when I was playing regularly was to just remove them entirely and use only the skills and turn anything that only relied on attributes into a skill (ex. Personal Hits and lifting capacity were both based on your build... so those elements became lifting and toughness skills).

Depending on the particular genre you could buy skills above 10 to sub in for attributes being absent (grittier settings we just kept capped at 10 since opposed exploding d10+skill checks had enough variability to make it feel dangerous (when typical skill ranges were 6-7 for vets and 8-9 for elites and 10 for best of the best) in a way that the base rules didn't capture (i.e. the rookie with his Reflexes 10 + 4-5 skills outflying even well skilled vets with Reflexes 6 and Piloting 7 isn't a thing in all mecha genres).

I think it worth noting that overall Mekton is easily the best Mecha genre game around. That excellence though does make the areas that are weaker pop more than they would in a more mediocre game engine.

And I would agree with you that the reflex issue of mekton can be a let down. I only see how they got there.
I have a similar relationship to battletech in a way where I'm sure someone at fasa had seen dougram and the fang of the sun even beyond the use of disigns from it.
Let me putt it this way I understand why this flaw exists in the system being at the game came out in 1994 it would have been hard for the people making the game to foresee every thing needed to cover the whole mecha genre. A good example that put what I'm trying to say in to prospective is that Evangelion doesn't come out until the next year. There are definatly flaws in mekton and one of them is that the core system as I understand it doesn't represent super robots as well as it should. Then again a game to focused on super robots would have fighting spirit and skills that bend the rules of the universe as the super stats. 

How does Heavy Gear compare to Mekton? One of my players had it but I never really got far into the book on a glance. The TV series was... not good...