Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
I don't remember female knights in La Morte d'Arthur, but in Renaissance poems (especially from Italy and France) la Guerriera was a staple.

This whole post was both interesting and yet a reminder of how Renaissance poems (regardless of the protagonist's sex) can be really boring in that "kids trying to top each other at make-believe" way. I suppose there's a reason why modern audiences mostly remembers isolated fragments of them, if they are remembered at all.

Regarding Ruggiero and Atlantes, I read a slightly different version somewhere which said Atlantes had heard a prophecy regarding his adopted son Ruggiero, one that said he would bring devastation to Islam if he ever converted. That's why he imprisoned him, to void his destiny.

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM

Quote from: I on August 11, 2023, 01:22:02 PM
Female knights in Pendragon?  Ridiculous.  If you go to Chaosium's forums you'll see people desperately cherry-picking historical factoids like "Countess Griselda threw a rock over the wall at the army besieging her castle in 1396, that proves women back then were common as warriors"!

I don't remember female knights in La Morte d'Arthur, but in Renaissance poems (especially from Italy and France) la Guerriera was a staple. She usually was very beautiful and very strong, more capable than any male counterpart. She had one of two destinies, however: to die (almost always killed by mistake by a lover on the battlefield, thus allowing for poetic grief) or to become a donna gentile (gentlewoman).

[It is interesting, right here, to notice how Eowyn, in The Lord of the Rings, fulfills both destinies (she doesn't actually die, but she is believed dead and people react to this news).]

Bradamante is the most famous. She was used by everyone, and in all her stories put together she did more things than The Avengers (comics plus movies). She was a Christian paladin, often pimped up with magic armor and weapons. Her lover was Ruggiero, a Saracen born from a Christian Knight and a Saracen woman, but she always waited for him to convert. In a truly pre-woke story, Ruggiero is taken prisoner by the Wizard Atlantes (something that, apparently, makes no sense, as Atlantes was the one who raised him as a Saracen; however, we discover that the Wizard is now in love with Ruggiero, which is as creepy as it gets). Bradamante arrives (after freeing a good sorceress prisoner in the tomb of Merlin in a side quest) and dishes out just violence on Atlantes. The Wizard, defeated, asks for pity. Bradamante is moved. Then she decides that she is not moved and dishes out more violence. The Wizard disappears. Ruggiero is freed but Bradamante rides into the sunset - as her lover still hasn't converted. A version of this story appears as an episode in the "Orlando Furioso" by Ariosto, while Andrew Lang wrote a second version with less violence and more D&D in his "Red Book". Some stories had an happy ending but usually they met on the battlefield, didn't recognize each other, fought to death, and he/she/both died in each other's arms. Bradamante shines in Boiardo and Ariosto oeuvres.

Marfisa was the Saracen version of Bradamante. She was the sister of Ruggiero, but she was raised by an "African wizard", somehow became Queen of India and then fought for the Saracens in full armor. Yeah, I don't have a clue either. In some tales she was a Eldritch Knight, wielding armor, sword and magic against the Christians - which is cool for the XVI Century. She falls in love, of course, with Ruggiero, until the Wizard Atlantes warns her of the truth (apparently the punishment dished by Bradamante straightened him a bit - still, Ruggiero appears to be an involuntary magnet of creep). Sometimes she died, sometimes she converted, and in at least one case she joined the army of Emperor Charlemagne (because it is something that any Queen of India will totally do). She was strangely beloved by writers, and there is a subculture of humorous tales about her.

Bradamante is the most famous but Clorinda is truly the real deal. She defends Jerusalem basically alone against the totality of the European Christian Kingdoms during the First Crusade, in "La Gerusalemme Liberata" by Torquato Tasso (her first scene sets the tone: she sees two Christians that are about to be burned by order of THE KING OF JERUSALEM; she says that, no, the two are to be freed BECAUSE SHE SAYS SO; the two are freed). She comes from the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia and has "fair skin and long blond hair" (I guess that the authors of The Rings of Power were involved in the background). She was raised a Muslim due to a backstory that involves, among other things, her fair skin, a eunuch, a raging torrent, Saint George and a tiger (not in this order). Clorinda wears a cool armor: white and silver, with a tiger-shaped helm. She is magnanimous but is easily pissed off. It is also made clear that SHE IS THE BEST WITH ANY WEAPON EVER CREATED UNDER THE SUN FROM ROCKS TO TACTICAL NUKES. If Clorinda shot an arrow in Egypt, someone died in China. She is also protected by Saint George, which is a bit of a cheat considering that she is Muslim. Anyway, she UNAVOIDABLY falls in love with the Christian knight Tancredi. He manages to tell her how, yes, he loves her too - while, on the battlefield, they are trying to kill each other in a duel to death (to be clear, they declare their mutual love during their duel - which doesn't stop; some see this as "Eros and Thanatos" while others point to a confused writer). The duel is inconclusive. Then, in one of the most shameful episodes in any story ever, Clorinda kills so many Christian knights in a single tracking shot that GOD SENDS THE ARCHANGEL MICHAEL TO REBALANCE THE SITUATION. I mean... If the match is fixed just say so. Anyway, the Saracens decide to put her in reserve (having someone who calls the Wrath of God on you isn't good for morale). Clorinda, miffed, first stops a full attack by the Crusaders with her bow (80% of the Christian European nobles of the time are killed in this single scene), then she decides that obliterating people with a bow is boring and returns to the frontline. A secondary character reveals to her that she was actually born a Christian but Clorinda declares that she will not betray her word and her religion (remember this). UNAVOIDABLY, after A LOT of shenanigans (Clorinda pulls a night attack against the biggest siege tower ever, that just explodes), she fights again Tancredi (both unaware of each other identity). Their second duel is just unreal. It puts to shame anything Marvel and Star Wars ever pushed out, even in good times. The number of paintings and illustrations about this battle can't be counted. Operas about it were written in Italy and France. It was reconstructed on stages all around Europe. The whole nine yards. Clorinda dies (it is a close call: it could have gone both ways but Clorinda bleeds out first), but, with her last breath she "realizes" that, no, she is Christian and converts (a smart move: after seeing what the Christian God can do, better to jump ship while you still have time...)

Tasso also deploys another Saracen female warrior, a minor character called Erminia who, too, is in love with Tancredi - who met when she was a prisoner of the Christian army. One night she steals Clorinda's armor and goes around looking for Tancredi. Erminia realizes, like, at once that having just everyone looking for your head (God included) is unhealthy. She somehow gets out of this mess alive, and confirms her ability to be taken prisoner by being taken prisoner by every single faction in the poem. At the end she stumbles into a dying Tancredi and saves his life thanks to her healing arts - a noble gesture that will lead straight to Clorinda's death. This will teach Clorinda! (meanwhile, Clorinda's armor had been returned to her by the DM).

So, maybe not in the English tradition, but the figure of the superheroine was a common sight in middle-southern Europe - at least from 1400 onwards. Just remember: at the end, either happy marriage and housewifing, or death.

Yeah, and if you go to the thread on Chaosium's website about female knights in Pendragon you will see all of that mentioned.  But none of this stuff is in ARTHURIAN legend.  if you had an RPG based more on The Faerie Queen stuff like that might be fine.  I've never minded Eowyn in LOTR; she's a cool character.  But Tolkien didn't have 50% of his warriors being women, he had ONE and she was an extraordinary person in both character and upbringing.  I can see maybe having one extraordinary woman (particularly a magical or holy one) be like that, but as a common player class?  Ridiculous.

I just don't get this need to play "characters that look like me" in RPGs, or the need to play a character totally wrong for a specific game or milieu.  For example, if I was going to play in an RPG emulating the fiction of Jane Austen, it would be pretty dumb if I told the GM "Okay, I want to play a bare-knuckled Irish brawling sailorman who's illiterate and half-Eskimo and whose main skills are fistfighting and tying knots."  WHY THE HELL would I insist on playing a character like that in a Jane Austen RPG when it's totally inappropriate to the setting?  Realistically, how is that character going to fit into the genteel drawing rooms of middle or upper class English folk who are mainly concerned with matchmaking and manners?  I would think somebody who wanted to play in a Jane Austen game would want to do so in order to emulate the feeling of her novels; to "play in her world," so to speak, not to turn everything on its head.  Or what if I was in an RPG of mythical Greece and I chose to play a "male Amazon."  I mean... why?  Play what you like, but don't expect me to think it's not stupid, or to not think that player is missing the point.

Quote from: ForgottenF on August 11, 2023, 09:17:54 PM

Quote from: BadApple on August 11, 2023, 02:12:22 PM
The whole thing of throwing Lovecraft under the bus is to me the place where they really fall apart for me.  Instead of seeing him as a complex and flawed human, they are lambasting him as a racist and trying to distance themselves with his legacy while taking his IP.

That last bit is what really rubs me up the wrong way. If you don't approve of someone, it's then supremely slimy to build your entire business on his artistic work. Either stand on principle or keep your mouth shut.

Well I suppose people like that might argue that they're liberating good ideas from an evil artist.

I think it's all hooey. Like what you like and make no apologies. I heard a story of a Jewish woman who survived the holocaust. She enjoyed listening to Wagner much to the shame of her friends and family. Her attitude was 1) nobody tells me what I'm allowed to like and 2) maybe it will piss off some Nazis that a Jew can enjoy Wagner, and that's just fine with me.

No artist is going to share your worldview and most will have very little in common. So what.

Sorry for the rant. I fully agree with you that it's slimy. They are biting the hand that fees them and only getting away with it because he's dead.

Quote from: Effete on August 11, 2023, 09:36:44 PM

I don't know. I thought about making a game set during Mao's Great Leap Forward. The entire thing would be an endless character-funnel.

Well, you can buy this game where you play a Commie:

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/260813/Comrades-A-Revolutionary-RPG

Somehow I think they would ban an RPG where you play a group of revolutionary National Socialists having a putsch in Germany, but this crap is OK with Drive-Thru RPG.

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
She comes from the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia and has "fair skin and long blond hair"

Sounds like it was inspired by the ancient novel Aethiopica, wherein the heroine, Chariclea, is an Ethiopian princess with white skin and blond hair, even though both of her parents are black.

Quote from: I on August 11, 2023, 01:22:02 PM
Runequest has artistically been retconned to look very Indian in culture, whereas the original was more European -- Sartarites were kind of like Anglo-Saxons, Lunars were sort of like Romans, etc.  Nothing wrong with making it look Indian if it had been done that way originally but it's very obvious they're trying to make it look less Eurocentric on purpose in order to be PC.

I think that is less woke than another iteration of art. The heavy European focus was introduced in RQ3 for the West while the Anglo-Celtic (it drew heavily on both) Sartarites are mostly a product of HeroWars/Quest sourcebooks, and is not the original imagery. Lunars looked as much Greek Empire of Alexander in RQ2 supplements, going Romanish in HW/Q.

The original art for all the factions that fought in Sartar is found in White Bear Red Moon. Prax is originally illustrated in Nomad Gods. Both were expanded in The Wyrm's Footprints. The art in all three is very 70s more than any historical analog.

Nothing I've seen indicates the West is being de-Europeanized. The East has always been a "Chinese" mishmash while Teshnos has been India.

The core areas of central Genertela have usually been influenced by areas between the two in the real world. Prax and the Wastes draw on the Eurasian steppes, as noted above the Lunars are the great Mediterranean empires, although any of the Persian Empires would be a working model. I am surprised Sartarite models have never been Caucus or Balkan mountain tribes.

I think the current art is heavily influenced by The Prince of Sartar webcomic which is nearly a decade old at this point much more than a woke desire to de-Europeanize Glorantha. There is also an increasing use of psychedelic and shamanistic imagery from all over which given Greg, especially later in life, makes sense.

Chaosium has lots of woke issues like thinking people in the 20s cared about pronouns, but I do not think the current RQ art is one of them.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on August 12, 2023, 04:23:24 AM
Sounds like it was inspired by the ancient novel Aethiopica, wherein the heroine, Chariclea, is an Ethiopian princess with white skin and blond hair, even though both of her parents are black.

I'm reminded of a podcast episode I heard a while back that had an interesting sidebar on how race might have been understood in pre-modern, pre-genetic-understanding times. It starts somewhere around 50:27 in this link, which you can skip to if you're familiar with the Psalmanazar hoax:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgucUiyitmc

Quote from: PulpHerb on August 12, 2023, 05:12:49 AM
The heavy European focus was introduced in RQ3 for the West while the Anglo-Celtic (it drew heavily on both) Sartarites are mostly a product of HeroWars/Quest sourcebooks, and is not the original imagery. Lunars looked as much Greek Empire of Alexander in RQ2 supplements, going Romanish in HW/Q.

Greek IS Western.  The original art in Runquest was Western centric.  Just look at the book cover art

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on August 11, 2023, 09:37:55 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
I don't remember female knights in La Morte d'Arthur, but in Renaissance poems (especially from Italy and France) la Guerriera was a staple.

This whole post was both interesting and yet a reminder of how Renaissance poems (regardless of the protagonist's sex) can be really boring in that "kids trying to top each other at make-believe" way. I suppose there's a reason why modern audiences mostly remembers isolated fragments of them, if they are remembered at all.

It, obviously, often comes down to the talent of the writer. Ariosto was the most fun, as he (it is said) created "Orlando" as a series of tales meant for his bed-ridden brother - so his aim was to entertain with magic, adventure, romance and sense-of-wonder. Then Tasso arrives and decides that a poem with religious undertones must ditch the fun (even if everything I said about Clorinda is in the book).

And yet it was Tasso the best-seller. While piratery of books already existed back then, his "Gerusalemme" set a record of sort in pirated copies. In his time he was deeply admired both by critics and the general public. Tastes change. Today his talent is still admired, but you can find a lot of modern versions in prose of Ariosto (like the ones by Andrew Lang) not of Tasso - as it is a bore.

Quote
Regarding Ruggiero and Atlantes, I read a slightly different version somewhere which said Atlantes had heard a prophecy regarding his adopted son Ruggiero, one that said he would bring devastation to Islam if he ever converted. That's why he imprisoned him, to void his destiny.

Now that you mention it I remember something similar. However, every writer had his own version. Some story elements were the same but the final tales were different.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on August 12, 2023, 04:23:24 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
She comes from the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia and has "fair skin and long blond hair"

Sounds like it was inspired by the ancient novel Aethiopica, wherein the heroine, Chariclea, is an Ethiopian princess with white skin and blond hair, even though both of her parents are black.

I don't know the original but very often they took a classic story as the inspiration for a character or part of the plot. Clorinda was inspired by Camilla from Virgil's Aeneid, for example. Armida, a sorceress in the same tale, comes from Circe, Alcida (a sorceress actually created by Ariosto) but her story arc has elements of the one of Dido too. Everything was very open source back then.

Anyway, when Clorinda is born with fair skin and blonde hair, her mother fears that her husband will accuse her of betrayal. She is substituted with a black girl and secretly sent away. We are told that there had been no betrayal, so her nature remains a mystery. I don't know what happens in the original tale.

Quote from: I on August 11, 2023, 09:56:41 PM
Yeah, and if you go to the thread on Chaosium's website about female knights in Pendragon you will see all of that mentioned.  But none of this stuff is in ARTHURIAN legend.  if you had an RPG based more on The Faerie Queen stuff like that might be fine.  I've never minded Eowyn in LOTR; she's a cool character.  But Tolkien didn't have 50% of his warriors being women, he had ONE and she was an extraordinary person in both character and upbringing.

Actually that's the point. While these heroines were very common in Renaissance tales, they were a rare exception in their own continuity (for the lack of a better term). They shared common traits (even the Saracen sorceress Armida was better that every single male wizard, and the most beautiful woman that ever existed; she falls in love with a Christian knight etc.)

However, it is always made clear that they were very rare exceptions - two or three amid dozens of male superheroes (this, BTW, is the correct term, as modern superheroes are... just that, the modern version ). The very reason they were usually killed by their lover was that no one expected for a woman in full armor to be on the field, much less to be a war machine, so no one checked who was this "extremely strong enemy" (again, you can see the inspirations for Eowyn here, even if Eowyn was far from being a war machine).

So, let's say that they publish the "European" supplement for Pendragon that was actually presented on this very forum by his author more than ten years ago. You need a way to have such a character - as there was always at least one going around. The first problem, however, is that these women were independent. Even amid a field battle they fought by themselves. In some cases they led armies, even presenting themselves as females in those occurrences, but always as "the lone leader in charge"

IMHO, they should be NPCs. Even better, a source of surprise. They appear as their beautiful self in a banquet, romance ensues and... soon or later the PCs meet this unstoppable warrior on the battlefield, and this time tragedy ensues. They could even be part of a party, with a magic armor that - I guess - changes their voice (I always wondered why their voices never gave them away). "I have this cursed armor I cannot exit from, you know..." (how they pee and such is left to the GM).

I'm pretty sure that, if every player is allowed to secretly be a woman warrior, the big twist is that the whole party will be revealed to be female, by then all in love with each other.

One last thing: their fate. Either they died or they became "gentlewomen". Some believe that this was an implicit was to convey the message "a woman doesn't belong to a battlefield, full stop". It is fun to have the beautiful Bradamante or Clorinda in full armor bringing genocide on their enemies, but soon or later it is time to grow up.

Quote from: Reckall on August 12, 2023, 10:37:38 AM

Quote from: Shipyard Locked on August 11, 2023, 09:37:55 PM

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
I don't remember female knights in La Morte d'Arthur, but in Renaissance poems (especially from Italy and France) la Guerriera was a staple.

This whole post was both interesting and yet a reminder of how Renaissance poems (regardless of the protagonist's sex) can be really boring in that "kids trying to top each other at make-believe" way. I suppose there's a reason why modern audiences mostly remembers isolated fragments of them, if they are remembered at all.

It, obviously, often comes down to the talent of the writer. Ariosto was the most fun, as he (it is said) created "Orlando" as a series of tales meant for his bed-ridden brother - so his aim was to entertain with magic, adventure, romance and sense-of-wonder. Then Tasso arrives and decides that a poem with religious undertones must ditch the fun (even if everything I said about Clorinda is in the book).

And yet it was Tasso the best-seller. While piratery of books already existed back then, his "Gerusalemme" set a record of sort in pirated copies. In his time he was deeply admired both by critics and the general public. Tastes change. Today his talent is still admired, but you can find a lot of modern versions in prose of Ariosto (like the ones by Andrew Lang) not of Tasso - as it is a bore.

Quote
Regarding Ruggiero and Atlantes, I read a slightly different version somewhere which said Atlantes had heard a prophecy regarding his adopted son Ruggiero, one that said he would bring devastation to Islam if he ever converted. That's why he imprisoned him, to void his destiny.

Now that you mention it I remember something similar. However, every writer had his own version. Some story elements were the same but the final tales were different.

Quote from: Rhymer88 on August 12, 2023, 04:23:24 AM

Quote from: Reckall on August 11, 2023, 07:11:46 PM
She comes from the Christian Kingdom of Ethiopia and has "fair skin and long blond hair"

Sounds like it was inspired by the ancient novel Aethiopica, wherein the heroine, Chariclea, is an Ethiopian princess with white skin and blond hair, even though both of her parents are black.

I don't know the original but very often they took a classic story as the inspiration for a character or part of the plot. Clorinda was inspired by Camilla from Virgil's Aeneid, for example. Armida, a sorceress in the same tale, comes from Circe, Alcida (a sorceress actually created by Ariosto) but her story arc has elements of the one of Dido too. Everything was very open source back then.

Anyway, when Clorinda is born with fair skin and blonde hair, her mother fears that her husband will accuse her of betrayal. She is substituted with a black girl and secretly sent away. We are told that there had been no betrayal, so her nature remains a mystery. I don't know what happens in the original tale.

Quote from: I on August 11, 2023, 09:56:41 PM
Yeah, and if you go to the thread on Chaosium's website about female knights in Pendragon you will see all of that mentioned.  But none of this stuff is in ARTHURIAN legend.  if you had an RPG based more on The Faerie Queen stuff like that might be fine.  I've never minded Eowyn in LOTR; she's a cool character.  But Tolkien didn't have 50% of his warriors being women, he had ONE and she was an extraordinary person in both character and upbringing.

Actually that's the point. While these heroines were very common in Renaissance tales, they were a rare exception in their own continuity (for the lack of a better term). They shared common traits (even the Saracen sorceress Armida was better that every single male wizard, and the most beautiful woman that ever existed; she falls in love with a Christian knight etc.)

However, it is always made clear that they were very rare exceptions - two or three amid dozens of male superheroes (this, BTW, is the correct term, as modern superheroes are... just that, the modern version ). The very reason they were usually killed by their lover was that no one expected for a woman in full armor to be on the field, much less to be a war machine, so no one checked who was this "extremely strong enemy" (again, you can see the inspirations for Eowyn here, even if Eowyn was far from being a war machine).

So, let's say that they publish the "European" supplement for Pendragon that was actually presented on this very forum by his author more than ten years ago. You need a way to have such a character - as there was always at least one going around. The first problem, however, is that these women were independent. Even amid a field battle they fought by themselves. In some cases they led armies, even presenting themselves as females in those occurrences, but always as "the lone leader in charge"

IMHO, they should be NPCs. Even better, a source of surprise. They appear as their beautiful self in a banquet, romance ensues and... soon or later the PCs meet this unstoppable warrior on the battlefield, and this time tragedy ensues. They could even be part of a party, with a magic armor that - I guess - changes their voice (I always wondered why their voices never gave them away). "I have this cursed armor I cannot exit from, you know..." (how they pee and such is left to the GM).

I'm pretty sure that, if every player is allowed to secretly be a woman warrior, the big twist is that the whole party will be revealed to be female, by then all in love with each other.

One last thing: their fate. Either they died or they became "gentlewomen". Some believe that this was an implicit was to convey the message "a woman doesn't belong to a battlefield, full stop". It is fun to have the beautiful Bradamante or Clorinda in full armor bringing genocide on their enemies, but soon or later it is time to grow up.

Isnt there already Matter of France based Pendragon spin off called Paladins?

Quote from: Slambo on August 12, 2023, 11:08:16 AM
Isnt there already Matter of France based Pendragon spin off called Paladins?

WHOA! So they DID publish it! Would you believe that it was announced in 2010 with the author coming to this very forum to talk about the project? It was this close to being published.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/very-understated-pendragon-news/

[I may have been the one who pleaded for rules allowing you to play your own Bradamante. I was younger...  ]

...Then everything was lost in the mists for years. I didn't know about "Paladins". Now I'm curious...

Quote from: Reckall on August 12, 2023, 11:33:40 AM

Quote from: Slambo on August 12, 2023, 11:08:16 AM
Isnt there already Matter of France based Pendragon spin off called Paladins?

WHOA! So they DID publish it! Would you believe that it was announced in 2010 with the author coming to this very forum to talk about the project? It was this close to being published.

https://www.therpgsite.com/pen-paper-roleplaying-games-rpgs-discussion/very-understated-pendragon-news/

[I may have been the one who pleaded for rules allowing you to play your own Bradamante. I was younger...  ]

...Then everything was lost in the mists for years. I didn't know about "Paladins". Now I'm curious...

It was successfully Kickstarted by Nocturnal and fulfilled by Chaosium, and they still sell it. It's based on the earlier French tales rather than the later Italian ones.

I also get the feeling, circling back to the topic, that current Chaosium management is somewhat embarrassed by it—they've said that the forthcoming Pendragon community support program will not allow people to do Paladin supplements.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer on August 12, 2023, 12:16:31 PM
I also get the feeling, circling back to the topic, that current Chaosium management is somewhat embarrassed by it—they've said that the forthcoming Pendragon community support program will not allow people to do Paladin supplements.

Really? Any inkling as to why? I mean, I can guess...

I actually have Paladins in PDF. I've browsed through it a few times. It unapologetically presents the world through the eyes of Charlemagne's people at the time, so myths and propaganda are intentionally treated as facts. For instance, Saracens are said to "venerate Mahomet, Apollo, Tervagant and Jupiter. Idolatrous (quite like the Byzantines), they carry around their gods as statues on the battlefield."

I can't recall seeing anything about female knights so far, so if it's in there it is low-priority.

Female knights get about half a page on pg 40-41 of Paladin, with explicit examples of Lady Orable from the Aliscans, as well as Marfisa and Bradamant.

"Your campaign may have room for female knights." (emphasis mine)

Discussion of some various reasons women were said to have taken up arms, which might be temporary.
Female knights can be generated either exactly as male knights or as characters with female family/attributes/skills who happen to have become knights.

Charlemagne and the paladins will accept them, but old-fashioned knights will view their deviance with scorn, contempt, and hostility, and to anybody else they'll need to prove themselves and not get too uppity.

They can try to work in disguise as a man, but this is difficult, and can add more complications when they're revealed.

I just remembered that we have some real-life examples. One is Joan of Arc, one of the most misunderstood characters in history. She was a military genius and an intuitive strategist. The French generals agreed that they started to take her seriously after seeing how good she was in placing "siege artillery". When she arrived at Orleans she first chased away the prostitutes following the army (that she survived this is generally considered proof that God does exist).

Then she gave an order that, to this day, no one knows from where it came from: Joan ordered that every soldier in the French army had to bathe before and after every battle. The number of soldiers that she saved from "death by infected wound" is unknown, but... even the most enlightened "surgeons" of the time didn't know the relation between being clean and the risk of an infection. Was it an intuition? A lucky "ritual" about which Joan had no clue about it's real importance? No one knows.

Joan wore a custom made set of armor (and not always), but this to avoid to be killed by the first stray arrow or missile. She had the "Sword of St. Michael" because the leader had to have a superior sword - and she waved it around along with her banner just to give orders to the men around her.

Yet, we know that Joan was wounded two times: by an arrow on the shoulder at Orleans, and her helmet was split in two by a rock during the Loire River campaign - both times because she was the first on a siege ladder. So, she did something in actual battle but we don't know what.

A last note. When King Charles decided to listen to Joan, the women at court started to think that they, too could do more! Joan cut their knees immediately by saying that "The role of a woman is to obey her husband and raise the children". God sent HER, not "the women" in general! Shoo! Shoo!

So much for the "feminist icon".

Anyway, Joan of Arc is the prime example that "there is always one", but she becomes famous because she is a stunning exception. This is the basis for la Guerriera in the poems: an idealized (and, let's be honest, "inclusive"!) female character which, however, represents the exception (some think that Marfisa was created because it was a bit unjust that the Saracens could not have their own "Bradamante" - interestingly enough, we don't have a trace of the obvious end game: a duel between the two...)

Personally, I like the idea of Clorinda obliterating human beings and siege weapons like the Tasmanian Devil from Bugs Bunny. The idea of the paladinette who, enraged, destroys a city (including the area inhabited by her own allies) touches something deep in the human psyche. There are even modern examples of the same archetipe in a different form (just think of Bernadette in The Big Bang Theory, a small, squeaky girl that destroys every obstacle she meets, often with an unexpected evil streak). Yet, these very poems tell us how, soon or lather, either you grow up or you die (even metaphorically).