It came up in the Exalted thread, and it was politely suggested to me that I start a new thread about it if I wanted to talk about it.

And I do... or at least, I want to hear about it. B:tP is one of those games I keep hearing about but none of what I hear ever seem to add up to a coherent picture. You play a monster, apparently? Which is... different from playing a vampire, werewolf, mummy, demon or Frankenstein's monster, somehow? It just sounds so vague and generic that I have a hard time getting a grip on it. And now I'm told it's some sort of mean-spirited Take That against GamerGaters, which just confuses me even more.

So educate me, anyone who feels inclined. Tell me the positive and the negative and above all just what the hell it's all about.

I haven't read the final book, so I can't help you too much with understanding the finished product. You might find this helpful for information, though: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Beast:_The_Primordial. I'm pretty sure some of the relevant outrage eventually got posted in the Exalted thread here, so if you've read through that monster you should have seen plenty of links about the Kickstarter fiasco. In particular, this is the entry on Heroes that got people riled up over Gamergate: http://i.imgur.com/nCBmvIb.png

In a nutshell, though, you play a human with the soul of a monster. You might have a dragon's soul and want to hoard stuff, for example, or you might have an urge to kill people. Regardless, you have to deal with Heroes which are people determined to kill Beasts. Some are good people (and many NPCs shown are, from what I've read) but most are supposed to be pretty awful people out more for glory than the desire to do what's right.

Personally, the game wouldn't appeal to me much even if it wasn't using the newest World of Darkness ruleset, which I am not a fan of. I guess I'm too much of a werewolf fan to care more about Beasts or their bizarre relationship with Heroes.

Quote from: Brand55;947997I haven't read the final book, so I can't help you too much with understanding the finished product. You might find this helpful for information, though: http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Beast:_The_Primordial. I'm pretty sure some of the relevant outrage eventually got posted in the Exalted thread here, so if you've read through that monster you should have seen plenty of links about the Kickstarter fiasco. In particular, this is the entry on Heroes that got people riled up over Gamergate: http://i.imgur.com/nCBmvIb.png

In a nutshell, though, you play a human with the soul of a monster. You might have a dragon's soul and want to hoard stuff, for example, or you might have an urge to kill people. Regardless, you have to deal with Heroes which are people determined to kill Beasts. Some are good people (and many NPCs shown are, from what I've read) but most are supposed to be pretty awful people out more for glory than the desire to do what's right.

Personally, the game wouldn't appeal to me much even if it wasn't using the newest World of Darkness ruleset, which I am not a fan of. I guess I'm too much of a werewolf fan to care more about Beasts or their bizarre relationship with Heroes.

It's a bad attempt to have a Mary Sue type monster be the way and game to do crossover in a system that only uses the same system but isn't meant for actual true crossover like Unsystem for example. Seriously, so Beowulf is evil and Grendal is good? Ridiculous and unworkable just like said game. And a unapologetic swipe at anybody not SJW or a full supporter of LGBC or whatever. The term of the antagonists was purposely chosen and twisted to offensive levels that only mean jealousy or revenge fantasy by anyone with a normal outlook.

I thought Twilight was just preteen fantasy what I didn't know is that these losers have an issue with Buffy the Vampire Slayer or anyone else that is trying to right the wrongs of monsters that PURPOSELY screw with everything to gain power.

Quote from: Baeraad;947992So educate me, anyone who feels inclined. Tell me the positive and the negative and above all just what the hell it's all about.

I was once told to read this about it, and now you will too! *points finger and casts evil spell*

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

Let me short.  Think of a concept created by SJWs that pretty much is everyone's best friend with super snowflake powers.  They prey on mortals to feed their hunger which makes them no different from vampires.  

Oh, but those deplorable heroes hunt us down.  Never mind the fact we had to stalk them and torture them to the point that they snap in order to become heroes.  Heroes are just evil worthless people who choose to hunt us beast for simply feeding off people.  Plus just ignore that cheer leader who followed us to our primordial dream to hunt us down like some utter badass.  No we swear she is not Buffy the teenage vampire slayer.  We swear!

Seriously this is just SJW vampires getting pissy that gamergate hunters are kicking their sorry asses.  Meanwhile the real vampires are busy snorting up blood soak crack, drinking blood from virgins, and having sex with luxury class hookers.

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;948001I was once told to read this about it, and now you will too! *points finger and casts evil spell*

http://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/beast-the-primordial/

Nyoooooooo!
*flung into the link, enslaved to read it in total.*

Here we go again.

Based on the previews essentially you play someone who is more or less the re-incarnation of some legendary monster archetype. These thingies eventually need to feed or they flip out. They feed on fear and by entering dreams and causing fear. If they dont feed then sooner or later they go on a dream rampage and thats likely to cause people to flip out. Or cause someone to express as the Hero destined to slay the monster.

Trick is that some monsters are being selective of their targets and have family to take care of when not monstering. Others see it as teaching people to face their fears. And the rest just do it to be dicks. Just like all the other WD settings. The Hero is a problem in that they believe they can do no wrong and they can and will do questionable things like harming innocent bystanders or torturing the monsters friends and family.

How much has changed from the preview to the print is an interesting list as there was a bitchfest over various elements. What else is new?

I am looking at the link and it is still a treasure trove of SJW stupidity.  Oh god some one should give this to Internet Aristocrat so we can give this shit of a book a proper burning it deserves.  By burning I mean roasting.  I am also talking about the "fixed" version.

Edit:  OMG!  Fucker fix shit all.  All the writer did was hidden his kickstarter version at places most people don't even bother to look.  "the Devouring is more of a homecoming.", quote says it all.

Did they actually fix it? I hope so because the first version was really bad.

Quote from: Marleycat;948023Did they actually fix it? I hope so because the first version was really bad.

No.  They just hide the things people hated about the kickstarter.

Reading over that Fatal and Friends link it actually sounds like there is a core of an interesting idea there... a mix of Dexter and Nephilim... but the authors shit it up by chaining it to identity politics and trying to teach somebody a lesson.
Even without those flaws, I'm skeptical it works as a game... as a fun thing to play.

I've got the final version, read most of it, and....

Divorced from itself it's an interesting approach to monsters for a Hunter the Vigil game.  See, there's these people who lose their souls to a nightmare-darkness-concept-monster, and in the process they get powers based on fears and such.  You could easily base an entire campaign world around Hunters going out and dealing with Beasts exclusively.  Alternatively, it provides some interesting rivals in a Changeling the Lost campaign; Beasts are those Changelings who escaped the Hedge and Gentry, but they did so "too late".  As a supplement to one of those games, with Beasts being used as NPCs, it's kinda' cool.

But that's not what this.

The first iteration was a kind of game about people discovering they were born wrong, and they're really special folk with super powers and a serious business destiny.  And people glommed onto it as "Otherkin: the Game We Wish Was Real".  Parallels with transgenderism were also drawn.  And of course, your existence creates mean people who want to hurt you just because you're a special snowflake who wants it to be Halloween all year long.  Boo hoo!

Problem being, this was meant to be a game of personal horror where you played monsters who thrived on fear.  

So the Otherkin stuff got chunked, and the thing turned into a metaphor for bullies and the cycle of abuse as near as I can figure out (which actually could be interesting, if better focused).  But people lost their shit over the idea of playing something unpleasant.  This wasn't Transfolk: the List of K3w| P0w3rz anymore, but a game where you were a jerk!  So -that- got scaled back too, and the end result was a theme that was about scaring people to various degrees.  And while I -do- respect the idea of encouraging players to come up with their own interpretations and approaches to their characters' struggles, this basically neuters the concept of "personal horror" in the game.  

And then there's the Heroes....  You have these monsters going around terrorizing people, but Beasts need to invent a whole new caste of people that exist to persecute them and promote their martyr complex, because the Hunters every other splat has to hide from isn't good enough.  Beasts are just -that- awesome at hiding their effects.  (yawn)  

And -then- there's the piss-poor Mary Sue approach to the rest of the WoD.  Even though it's written in character, it's grating as -fuck-.  And this game -begs- to be used as part of a crossover, at which point you get back to all the awful crossover metaphysics bullshit the oWoD was bogged down in (although, to be fair, the nWoD is still vastly superior for crossovers than the oWoD.  In part because it doesn't care if your precious widdle wampire gets smeared into paste by a rookie mage, and in part because it was built to have a shared metaphysics you could ignore from the start).

And -then- -then- there's the realization that the game... kinda' sucks even on its own merits.  For all the in-setting talk about how relevant and important and special the Beasts are, they're none of the above.  Vampire does the whole "feeding on humans because I'm a monster" shtick better.  Changeling handles absolute dread and survivor group themes better.  Promethean has "the people want to beat me up and run me out of town because I'm different" motif covered much better.  Mage has got the power trip fantasy down pat.  And despite trying to cover all these themes anyway, Beast isn't a Jack of All Trades but more of a deuce.  (pun intended)  

tl;dr - as a game it sucks and is redundant and insulting, as a DIY Monster Manual alternative for the WoD it isn't entirely worthless.

How can you tell the differences in versions of the KS preview then?

I just read that review and it made me respect Demon even more.  Mainly demon does not put up with beast's stupidity and is immune to friendship powers.  Of course this triggers beasts which is why the don't like demons.  Seriously the writer wrote demon, but he sure as fuck have these beasts hate them like the plague.

Which I find it odd that changeling would even like beasts.  I mean some scary monster dragged the changeling away and torment the poor fuck.  Beasts by their nature do the same shit as the true fae.  If any thing changelings should be the instant allies with heroes.

Quote from: Omega;948088How can you tell the differences in versions of the KS preview then?

The reviewer tells you the changes after each section.  Serious it is a good review and the man points out the bullshit.