TBP take on Orcs are Mexican

Ratman_tf · July 13, 2024, 04:42:18 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 13, 2024, 11:11:06 AMYeah, that's been a joy to read watching Zeea being a complete hypocrite.

There are some on the left though bringing up a valid criticism which is surprising me. Which means this new direction is going to be a complete disaster when both the left and right think it's bad...

But that criticism is "Humanizing all the non-human races just makes them different flavors of human and that's boring."

Yes. In another context, I wouldn't bat an eye. Maybe go "Huh, mexican flavored orcs. That's neat."
But in the context of the culture war, where everything is racist and sexist and ist-ist, they can fucking choke on their inevitable istism heartburn.

BoxCrayonTales · July 13, 2024, 05:01:59 PM

It's very hard to create fantasy races that aren't simply humans in rubber suits without designing actual biological differences that affect their behavior. But you can't force players to roleplay that.

Omega · July 13, 2024, 11:13:30 PM

Quote from: Brad on July 13, 2024, 11:52:21 AMAlso, the irony is they literally will cry racism about the dumbest crap, but when someone notes there might be some actual racism they act like it's impossible because, well, it's their butt-buddies doing it. What a complete bunch of absolute losers.

Like I keep saying. Its only wrong till they themselves want to do (make money off) it. And any minority or disabled who speaks out gets un-minoritied. Already happening on Reddit. Saw come half-wit declaring that the posts speaking against the Mexican orcs were not real Mexicans.

Omega · July 13, 2024, 11:15:15 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 13, 2024, 11:11:06 AMBut that criticism is "Humanizing all the non-human races just makes them different flavors of human and that's boring."

Orcs have been hit the worst of this. I expect mind flayers will be next.

David Johansen · July 14, 2024, 01:03:44 AM

All things considered I wonder how my players will react to Slowpoke Rodrigez the ork.

For those who don't know, he's Speedy Gonzalz's cousin that packs a gun. Of course they tried to cancel Speedy at one point, much to the disappointment of all the Mexicans who love him.

yosemitemike · July 14, 2024, 01:37:11 AM

They never cared about racism to begin with. The whole "orcs are black people" thing was just a pretense to insert themselves into the hobby and take control in order to fix a problem that they made up. Now that they have taken control the direction of D&D, all that stuff about racism is no longer useful. It's not that they stopped caring. They never cared in the first place. It was just a means to an end. Zeea as much as admits that it doesn't matter to her now that she has what she wanted.

Omega · July 14, 2024, 05:58:45 AM

On the bright side these fucks will be the new targets of the next wave of moral outrage.

pawsplay · July 14, 2024, 04:33:37 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on July 13, 2024, 01:30:27 PM
Quote from: Abraxus on July 13, 2024, 11:50:09 AMWhat gets me is Zeea backpedaling and BS about acting like she did no wrong.

If Wotc is dumb enough to use a Mexican stereotypes and both sides call them out on it, they don't get a free pass in the name of " diversity and inclusivity ".

If their pawsplay is the same woketard as our pawsplay I'm amazed he is calling out the OBVIOUS representation of Mexican/Argentinian cowboys.

I would have put him in the "nothing to see here folks" camp.

Well, I guess you missed my "how Paizo got rid of race and made it better" screed from yesteryear.

I guess you treasure the idea I'm some kind of doctrinaire, but I'm full of opinions, I assure you.

Aglondir · July 14, 2024, 08:07:18 PM

Quote from: Alinksy, Rules for Radicals4. Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.

Venka · July 15, 2024, 05:20:41 PM

Quote from: Orphan81 on July 13, 2024, 04:24:40 PMYou don't have to make their society intricate and complicated. I literally used Drow as an example. They're Elves that live underground, are matriarchal and love spiders. You can get more indepth but the one sentence works.

That sentence doesn't do justice to one of the important features of Drow- that they are truly alien in culture, and frankly, in biology. They aren't humans with pointy ears. Even weird human cultures that involved human sacrifice are much more relatable than some of the stuff Drow get up to.

QuoteIf the Orcs are Mexican, as in literally they have the culture of Northern Mexico... They're not a fantasy race, they're ugly Mexicans and they can't serve as a source of conflict either, because now they're fucking Mexicans and if you use them as adversaries well, now you're a racist.

No, the culture portrayed in the book is probably not as important as the art. If the art is weirdly consistent, then that is the reality of orcs in the default D&D setting, and as you, using them as adversaries lets you be open to accusation of racism because they are coded as a real world race very deliberately. And yea, just in the art is enough.

JeremyR · July 17, 2024, 02:22:50 AM

The Hollow World for D&D had South American orcs, they were like gauchos. Good horse riders, wore ponchos and used bolas

Rhymer88 · July 17, 2024, 03:06:02 AM

Quote from: JeremyR on July 17, 2024, 02:22:50 AMThe Hollow World for D&D had South American orcs, they were like gauchos. Good horse riders, wore ponchos and used bolas

Oh, I must have missed that. But I do remember the Bavarian dwarves who wore lederhosen. However, I don't think TSR ever showed female dwarves wearing dirndl dresses.

Omega · July 17, 2024, 04:40:44 AM

Quote from: Rhymer88 on July 17, 2024, 03:06:02 AM
Quote from: JeremyR on July 17, 2024, 02:22:50 AMThe Hollow World for D&D had South American orcs, they were like gauchos. Good horse riders, wore ponchos and used bolas
Oh, I must have missed that. But I do remember the Bavarian dwarves who wore lederhosen. However, I don't think TSR ever showed female dwarves wearing dirndl dresses.

Mystara had some pretty weird areas due to frequent intersections with Earth and people tumbling over. Theres a little lycanthrope kingdom run by a werewolf from France. The Red Steel are is a mix of wild west, Mexico and Three Musketeers. And other weirdness. Those are just ones recall.

Also the dark elves of Mystara and Hollow World are very different in society from AD&D ones.

Spinachcat · July 17, 2024, 04:56:13 AM

Orcs as Mexicans makes total sense once you've eaten Orc food. It's just endless variations of meat, cheese, beans and rice.

And that's why Gary Gygax had them populate so many dungeons, as the goal of every hero is to eat more burritos.

Burritos as XP. The core concept of OD&D.

GeekyBugle · July 17, 2024, 01:32:04 PM

Quote from: JeremyR on July 17, 2024, 02:22:50 AMThe Hollow World for D&D had South American orcs, they were like gauchos. Good horse riders, wore ponchos and used bolas

I must have missed the part where TSR was denouncing the creators of D&D and older players as istophobes.

Which is the ONLY reason ANY sane Mexican/Latino would have a problem with the current depiction... Other than it being lame and looking like a stock photo.