Quote from: jeff37923;809687Bromancer? WTF is that?

Derogatory slur aimed "red blooded manly men" types (Cisgendered and Caucasian, IME), hyper masculine high fiving and are terrified at any reference, image or experience (like accidentally touching another man's ass or complimenting their appearance) that could be even vaguely thought of as "gay" or homoerotic unless the magic words "No Homo" are quickly uttered. Can be an accusation or implication of being extremely even violently homophobic and/or a closeted homosexual overcompensating.

Like most stereotype examples exist so there is a kernel of truth to it but its often used a hugely broad brush to smear pretty much all heterosexual males that act in a traditionally masculine manner Can be synonymous or related with meat head, muscle head, Guido, jocks and dudes. "Dudebro" was popular for awhile on TBP but I haven't seen it for awhile.

Quote from: jibbajibba;809803See what I mean the conversation is about how much boobage you can get away with and tasteful nudity is always tasteful female nudity. Hareems, red Sonja, etc no discussion about naked male wrestling, tasteful male bath scenes, or classical Greek styled man love....

That'll be a 100 yr Ban for "What about the Menz!?"

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;809186I am just curious what people think about nudity in RPG books that isn't the chain mail bikini variety. I was having a conversation with one of my artists who was a bit frustrated that there isn't much place for the kind of nudity you see all over the rest of the art world in games. The artist was thinking more along the lines of stuff that tries to capture the beauty of the human form but isn't aimed at titillation. My feeling is this is because RPG books tend to be illustrative, and if you include nudity in an image to convey a feeling or mood, people take it quite literally. Does it have a place? Does it annoy you? Do you think we could use more art that isn't so literal?

Nude nuns with machineguns seems to be popular.

For me: I like Frazetta-style drawings.

Yeah. I like Frazetta-style stuff, but not the modern spinal contortionist thing.

I think because Frazetta's stuff has active, exciting poses that are more than just 'hey, look, tits,' whereas if you have a sorceress in a porn star pose it's... well, stupid.

Unless the sorceress is actually having sex.

And even then, the poses on covers and stuff would be terrible porn.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;809191How would you feel about nudity that is a stylistic choice, that isn't meant to be taken literally. For example something like Watson and the Shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watson_and_the_Shark).

Brendan - I don't like the idea of nudes thrown into the book just as decoration, regardless of how tasteful they are.

As Omega pointed out, I would expect nude illustrations in a Barsoom RPG, as well as in something based on sub-Saharan African, or others. However, if there is little expectation of nude PCs or NPCs as part of adventures, it seems weird to me to have nude illustrations.

Quote from: jibbajibba;809803See what I mean the conversation is about how much boobage you can get away with and tasteful nudity is always tasteful female nudity. Hareems, red Sonja, etc no discussion about naked male wrestling, tasteful male bath scenes, or classical Greek styled man love....

In post #9 I said the following.

Quote from: Bren;809201I expect nudity in certain settings e.g. Greek atheletes, Celtic warriors, slaves in Rome, most any setting where people are having sex. Whether nudity is appropriate in an RPG depends on what is being depicted and what the setting is.

Lot of menz in those categories. Hell, I even specifically mentioned naked Greek atheletes. (And it's not like I was the only person to mention male nudity.)

Are you just not bother to read the thread or are you trying to troll it.

Quote from: jhkim;809934Brendan - I don't like the idea of nudes thrown into the book just as decoration, regardless of how tasteful they are.

As Omega pointed out, I would expect nude illustrations in a Barsoom RPG, as well as in something based on sub-Saharan African, or others. However, if there is little expectation of nude PCs or NPCs as part of adventures, it seems weird to me to have nude illustrations.

"I don't like" is an acceptable response.

"I think there is a moral problem with..." requires a lot more unpacking (especially if the book's for adults).

Quote from: Zak S;809984"I think there is a moral problem with..." requires a lot more unpacking (especially if the book's for adults).

Given that we have one game that features Caligula as a hero and another where the whole point is to be murderous mobsters,I've long assumed adults are our audience. I don't think our books need ADULT on the cover or anything but I never imagine our books are intended for teenagers or younger. That said,we have never featured nudity in our books. In this case I feel like the artist made a very good case to me why it was a good idea. Certainly don't want to alienate readers but I do want to put out a book that does what we want. This is definitely a more experimental project than some of our other games.

I do appreciate the honest feedback from everyone. It is helpful. At least I know what we are getting into if we go this direction.

Quote from: jibbajibba;809803See what I mean the conversation is about how much boobage you can get away with and tasteful nudity is always tasteful female nudity. Hareems, red Sonja, etc no discussion about naked male wrestling, tasteful male bath scenes, or classical Greek styled man love....

I think different artists are inspired by different things. We definitely are not going for max boobage with this book. The artist is a woman and she is more inpspired by the female form than the male form (she has stated this very clearly to me on many occassions). I can't force her to draw naked men just to appease some sense that there should be an equal amount of male and female nudity in the book since this is a project where she is my creative partner. If I had more artists on this project (which budget constraints won't allow) things might be different.

Generally we have avoided nudity and I only consider it in this case because it feels quite appropriate. If an artist made a strong case though, I wouldn't at all be opposed to male nudity in another project. After all Greek and Roman stuff is filled with male nudity and no one bats an eye.

It always struck me as weird how in the US is perfectly acceptable to show a crushed skull or a mutilated murder victim during prime time but showing too much side boo was "edgy" and a full on titty verboten (at least without all sorts of fanfare and warnings followed by outraged protests).

I think I have an odd perspective on the chainmail bikini/female armor thing,. Most of the characters that have worn things like that in our games have had female players. Not all of them but they've been the majority (including a preistess of fertility/love goddess that went nude except for ceremonial adornments and jewelry). Their players liked feeling sexy and powerful (being such a badass you didn't need armor) and I guess well brought into the Full Frontal Assault trope in general. There were allot of loincloth wearing barbarian warriors and shirtless rogues too.

I haven't run into women that have been offended, at worst there's been some rolled eyes and shrugs. No one stormed off in offense. Those experiences have shaped my attitude about nudity (and sexuality but that's a different topic) in rpgs. I'm pretty relaxed about it and I wouldn't mind nude images in rpg books. even explicit ones if its works for the context needed.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;810020After all Greek and Roman stuff is filled with male nudity and no one bats an eye.

No one except Queen Victoria, a number of Popes, and any number of modern day artistic expurgators. But they aren't usually the target market for RPGs.

The United States is locked in full blown psycho stupid over the issues of Sex and Violence. The internet only made it worse.

Sex Sells has been taken to the extreme where many young women live in sexy-selfie-wars with each other BUT political correctness says men are to live in fear of being accused of "eye rape", meanwhile the free porn spank kingdom has exploded like never.

And fashion and celeb mags are in show-more-side-boob battles, and their customer base is women. And men can get so much video of ass action that they'd chaff their dicks off long before they run out of fresh imagery. If I was 15 in 2015, I doubt I'd walk right.

Allow that image to sink in...

So...RPG publishers? I think you are fucked, fucked, triple fucked if you go near nudity because we live in an age of uber-dumb.

That said, know your audience.

If your audience says yes to nudity in your books, then tell the Online Censor Mob to fucking die die die and publish whatever your customer base likes.

Everything is freaking micro-niche today that I think you can give your fans what they want IF IF IF you are willing to throw down against (or ignore) the Censor Mob.

Quote from: Bren;810031No one except Queen Victoria, a number of Popes, and any number of modern day artistic expurgators. But they aren't usually the target market for RPGs.

Victorians and Popes definitely not our audience.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;810097Victorians and Popes definitely not our audience.

To limited? Maybe for a one off?

I am curious what you'll end up with art-wise.

When confronted with issues of good taste and decency I like to think about what Bender might have to say? I suspect it would go something like this?

"Tasteful nudity in roleplaying games? I say we should have more nudity in roleplaying games, tasteful or not. In fact forget about the roleplaying game."