Quote from: JeremyR;809438The chainmail bikini was only invented (presumably for comic books) because you apparently couldn't show women fighting topless, like the ancient amazon warriors in greek art were often show. Even some of the Valkyries were shown like that. You see topless women all the time in Victorian books on mythology.

The chain mail bikinis is silly, true, but it's a result of modern day prudery.

It may actually have been invented for Marvel's Hyborean version of Red Sonja.
They needed someone with a similar degree of nudity as Conan at the time, but couldn't show breasts, and also wanted something ... more fancy and/or battle-like, I guess, so ... chainmail bikini.

Quote from: TristramEvans;809464Walken: Do you have sex with horses, or with human women?

Centaur: Uh.. neither. I'm really only attracted to other Centaurs.

Walken: Okay. What if were a horse with a mask of a woman on it?

Centaur: No. I mean, would you have sex with a monkey if it had a mask on?

Walken: This interview is not about me. What if you saw a horse, but it was standing so that its head was in a barn, or something. Would you, maybe, be attracted to that horse's rear end?

Centaur: Uh.. I don't.. where is the head, exactly?

Walken: It's in the barn.. or behind a door, or a vase, or something.. so you can't see it.

Centaur: Uh.. I might be attracted to it - briefly.

Walken Okay. So, let's say, hypothetically, that you could have sex with the back end.. and it's guranteed to be the greatest sex you ever had.. but you'd never know if it was as horse or as Centaur?

Centaur: Hmm.. you know, that's pretty intriguing.. uh.. if I'd really never know, I guess I would.

Walken: It was a horse.

This is exactly how people that thinks that Furries is into beastiality/zoophilia thinks.

...but that is off topic.

But then, Anthro animals is among those that would easily be ok'd to be nude, as they have fur.

If a game is targeting an adult only audience (such as LotFP - which goes a bit over the top, but it fits), its fine so long as its well done and makes sense within the context of the scene / game and what creature is being depicted.

If an artist just wants to insert a nude just because...then its probably not appropriate to the scene.

But I think consistency is also important. I like the 5th Edition monster manual, but a lot of naked monsters that should have obviously exposed genitals look like they are made more by Mattel than Hasbro.

Quote from: jibbajibba;809220Yet people would whinge that you were trying to make a political point.

Hell, people do that anyway.  Paizo put a single lesbian couple in a book with dozens of other NPCs, and RPG boards continent-wide (I fancy Europe was more civilized about it) erupted with "OMG they're pushing the QUEER AGENDA!!!" posts.

Me, I don't have a problem.  Arduin had nudity.  EPT had nudity (and furthermore, male nudity).  White Dwarf had nudity.  The world somehow didn't end.

But I also have to admit: why?  Granted, I come from the POV that any interior art that doesn't have a direct bearing on scenarios is a waste of space, but even so.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;809186I am just curious what people think about nudity in RPG books that isn't the chain mail bikini variety. I was having a conversation with one of my artists who was a bit frustrated that there isn't much place for the kind of nudity you see all over the rest of the art world in games. The artist was thinking more along the lines of stuff that tries to capture the beauty of the human form but isn't aimed at titillation. My feeling is this is because RPG books tend to be illustrative, and if you include nudity in an image to convey a feeling or mood, people take it quite literally. Does it have a place? Does it annoy you? Do you think we could use more art that isn't so literal?

I think that the tasteful nude has a place in RPG art. As you say, most RPG art tends to be illustrative, so I can see a tasteful nude being illustrative of a NPC. Clothing should not matter as much as the bearing with which the character carries themselves.

Case in point, if you know of the performance of Audrey Hepburn in the movie Roman Holiday, there is a scene where her character comes into her own as a member of royalty. She is wearing a night gown and getting ready for bed, but her regal bearing as she addresses her servants/keepers lets the entire audience know that she commands and is not one to be trifled with. It had nothing to do with her clothing and everything to do with the attitude being displayed.

The same can be done with a tasteful nude in RPGs.

Of course, it will just give the warriors of moral decency more ammunition, but fuck those guys.

Quote from: CRKrueger;809409Because if you're not deeply offended at Red Sonja, you're obviously a bromancer who runs screaming at the site of male nudity...or something equally idiotic.

Bromancer? WTF is that?

Quote from: jeff37923;809687Bromancer? WTF is that?

Obviously someone who divines the future from the flexing of pectoral muscles

Quote from: jeff37923;809687Bromancer? WTF is that?

Who the hell knows?  Some kind of jock/bro/frat/testosterone-junkie/lift/homophobe.  Meaning really a male of the species who likes looking at females.

Quote from: Catelf;809466It may actually have been invented for Marvel's Hyborean version of Red Sonja.
They needed someone with a similar degree of nudity as Conan at the time, but couldn't show breasts, and also wanted something ... more fancy and/or battle-like, I guess, so ... chainmail bikini.

Actually was even simpler than that. Red Sonja originally appeared in a scale male haulberk. During a battle it got torn ripped up into a sort of scale mail mini-shirt. When MArvel started a spin-off Red Sonja title, Frank Thorne took that and ran with it, creating the scale mail bikini top as her standard costume. Red Sonja has actually never worn a chainmail bikini.

Whats most interesting about Red Sonja is how she shows the huge difference in sexual attitudes between feminists in the 70s and modern feminists. Red Sonja became a feminist icon...a strong independent warrior-woman who flaunted her sexuality (70s feminism in many ways embraced a backlash against the anti-sexual roles imposed by society on "good girls", essentially institutionalized slut-shaming). These days feminists online hold up Red Sonja as the poster child for everything wrong and sexist in comics and fantasy.

Now, Broomancer, on the other hand...

Quote from: CRKrueger;809689Who the hell knows?  Some kind of jock/bro/frat/testosterone-junkie/lift/homophobe.  Meaning really a male of the species who likes looking at females.

I looked it up in the Urban Dictionary and I feel no smarter for having done so.

Quote from: Urban Dictionary on BromancerA person who can control the hearts and minds of any bro he comes into contact with. This requires the person to have intimate knowledge of the bro code and the inner working of a bros mind. Usually this individual is a hardcore bro, thus not immune to other bro-mancers. (Not to be confused with bromance)

Also, this:

Is bro the modern word for gay?

Quote from: TristramEvans;809690Actually was even simpler than that. Red Sonja originally appeared in a scale male haulberk. During a battle it got torn ripped up into a sort of scale mail mini-shirt. When MArvel started a spin-off Red Sonja title, Frank Thorne took that and ran with it, creating the scale mail bikini top as her standard costume. Red Sonja has actually never worn a chainmail bikini.

Whats most interesting about Red Sonja is how she shows the huge difference in sexual attitudes between feminists in the 70s and modern feminists. Red Sonja became a feminist icon...a strong independent warrior-woman who flaunted her sexuality (70s feminism in many ways embraced a backlash against the anti-sexual roles imposed by society on "good girls", essentially institutionalized slut-shaming). These days feminists online hold up Red Sonja as the poster child for everything wrong and sexist in comics and fantasy.

Never?
.... I think that depends on how one interprets "bikini" I guess, as you are technically correct, since the bottom part isn't formed as a thong or such, it simply hangs down.

Quote from: Catelf;809700Never?
.... I think that depends on how one interprets "bikini" I guess, as you are technically correct, since the bottom part isn't formed as a thong or such, it simply hangs down.

I meant chain mail. Red Sonja in the Marvel comics has only ever worn scale mail.

Of course, -nobody- has ever worn chainmail!