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Tabletopocalypse Now

Started by Benoist, October 23, 2010, 12:27:23 AM

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D-503

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;411681His products seem small enough not to require huge investment or time (especially as pdfs). As opposed to some 300 page full colour impossile to read pdf. That's just an observation. The only game of his I ever owned was Underground. To be fair, that was pretty decent.

His Pulp stuff is pretty good, he used to (perhaps still does) run a pulp mailing list and he knows the field extremely well.  That knowledge and love shows in his product.
I roll to disbelieve.

stu2000

He wrote Hong Kong Action Theater!, one of the very few games I've ever been able to take to cons or games days and be absolutely 100% guaranteed to have a good time. He did Age of Empire, a nice, keep-it-simple steampunk game before that was all hot. His d20 stuff seemed mostly competent. His Mars book was disappointing.

His internet persona is cantankerous. His views of the industry and the hobby seem filtered purely through his place in it and his ability to make money in it. However, he seems to be disproportionately vilified for just being a curmudgeon.
Employment Counselor: So what do you like to do outside of work?
Oblivious Gamer: I like to play games: wargames, role-playing games.
EC: My cousin killed himself because of role-playing games.
OG: Jesus, what was he playing? Rifts?
--Fear the Boot

Tommy Brownell

I only own three products by GMS/Adamant Entertainment: Thrilling Tales (Savage Worlds), MARS (Savage Worlds) and ICONS...

Thrilling Tales is TREMENDOUS...I've never been able to finish reading MARS and I have a very...love-hate relationship with ICONS. At the least, I'll say that I think the quality of the game is a bit...overblown...on the internet.
The Most Unread Blog on the Internet.  Ever. - My RPG, Comic and Video Game reviews and articles.

Melan

Gareth has some interesting opinions about gaming and the people who are involved in it. Like these.
Now with a Zine!
ⓘ This post is disputed by official sources

Benoist

Quote from: Melan;411694Gareth has some interesting opinions about gaming and the people who are involved in it. Like these.
Oh yes. I remember that one. Brings some perspective on this one here, in some respects.

Kyle Aaron

I have spent over half my working life in the service industry, so I can tell you that it's not uncommon for people working in it to despise their customers.

Which is both ironic and sad. But there you go. GMS is not really any different to the chef who races out into the dining to heap abuse on people for wanting a well-done steak, and who is then surprised and dismayed when he has fewer customers tomorrow night. "Why can't they appreciate my genius?! Unworthy scum!"
The Viking Hat GM
Conflict, the adventure game of modern warfare
Wastrel Wednesdays, livestream with Dungeondelver

TheShadow

I don't get the hate for GMS. So he's opinionated and posts thought provoking, contentious stuff? Big deal.
You can shake your fists at the sky. You can do a rain dance. You can ignore the clouds completely. But none of them move the clouds.

- Dave "The Inexorable" Noonan solicits community feedback before 4e\'s release

Benoist

I don't "hate" GMS. I just think he's a douchebag.

Spinachcat

Of course the hobby is in decline.   It doesn't advertise itself, does no youth marketing and keeps making products only aimed at current hobbyists.  

It's like if model airplanes stopped making basic kits for young kids and dropped all their adverts, then a decade later wondered why their hobby was falling apart.

GMS wrote HKAT so he's good in my book.

Sigmund

Quote from: CRKrueger;411589To tell you the truth, I think that attitude is the problem.  There's nothing TTRPG's can learn from CRPG's.

CRPG's popularity comes from...
1.) Single-Player experience.
2.) Multi-Player is usually adhoc whenever you want it with no planning.
3.) Increasing awesome graphics, including hella-sexy chicks.
4.) Cheats available so you can be as hardcore or as wish-fulfilled as you feel like that day.
5.) Totally self-centered instant gratification.

None of that applies to TTRPGs and the idea that somehow CRPGs have some wisdom they can impart because of the success of Bioware or Blizzard is totally misplaced.

The computer software TTRPGs need to learn from is...
collaborative real-time filesharing software
communication software
WYSIWYG web design software

The reason a lot of people are playing MMORPGS is because there is no TT option that fits their lifestyle.  Give them a means to take what system they want, use a computer program to build a dungeon that doesn't require a degree in graphics design, xml, or C/VB/Java scripting, and a program to communicate with other players and show maps, and automate some game elements and you'll see people playing a lot more Virtual Table-Top.

Bingo! I completely agree. I bolded the last because it completely describes my opinion on this. I would give up lotro in a heartbeat to play a more traditional RPG if software was available that was no more difficult than any computer game to learn to use. I'd have 4 or even more groups and be playing most evenings happily.
- Chris Sigmund

Old Loser

"I\'d rather be a killer than a victim."

Quote from: John Morrow;418271I role-play for the ride, not the destination.

Sigmund

Quote from: D-503;411627GMS doesn't care about the hobby, he cares about the industry.

He sees gamers as consumers of product, he sees the hobby as important only insofar as it enables the industry.

I agree with his analysis that the industry is in terminal decline.  I don't think that's news, I think it's been true and indeed evident for years.

Where I disagree is with his view that the hobby needs the industry.  I think his idea that games shops bring in new gamers is charmingly old fashioned, and indeed pre-internet and in fact pre-1990s.

Model railroads and miniatures wargaming get by fine without the delusion that they need a commercial industry to support them.  Gamers for some reason think such a thing is required.

Happily they're wrong.  Happily because the concept of an rpg industry is inherently non-viable, and always has been.  Any hobby in which the best product from a consumer perspective is one that enables an entire group to play for years with no further purchases clearly isn't going to make money.  Rpgs don't.

His analysis is correct, but out of date, and he misses the important issue.  The issue is the hobby and how it will fare with the decline of the industry, that's what's interesting.  GMS doesn't see that because he has no interest in the hobby, and little understanding of it, to him we are simply potential purchasers of his product.  He doesn't understand that his product is like a trumpet or a canvas, it's a tool to enable another's creativity.

GMS makes a classic business error.  He thinks the customer is at fault when they don't support his company.  No.  The company either needs to make products customers want or redirect its efforts to another industry.

Like so many middling businessmen over the years, he sits facing economic decline and complains that his customers just don't get it.

Which is SOP for Skarka as far as I've seen. His ignorance and lack of confidence show clearly in his attempt to short-circuit any disagreement with his opinions by using condescending language to describe anyone who's opinion differs from his. This is also SOP for Skarka as far as I've seen. In the same way he also reveals his complete lack of gratitude and respect for the consumers of the types of products he has created. He seems to be of the opinion that we should be grateful to him for creating something for us. Pathetic, really. One can only hope that when the industry finally "collapses", he will stop all this bleating he does in his efforts to stave off the obscurity he deserves.
- Chris Sigmund

Old Loser

"I\'d rather be a killer than a victim."

Quote from: John Morrow;418271I role-play for the ride, not the destination.

Sigmund

Quote from: The_Shadow;411753I don't get the hate for GMS. So he's opinionated and posts thought provoking, contentious stuff? Big deal.

The only thought he provokes in me is "What an idiot." Otherwise, I don't hate him any more than any other loud-mouthed, yet irrelevant, prick. I reserve my hate for the loud-mouthed pricks that can actually influence my life, like Pat Robertson or Sarah Palin.
- Chris Sigmund

Old Loser

"I\'d rather be a killer than a victim."

Quote from: John Morrow;418271I role-play for the ride, not the destination.

kregmosier

a niche publisher in a niche hobby...and his opinion is relevant why?  oh yeah, cause he makes provocative statements and has the power to put panties in bunches.  (SAVE vs. PANTY-BUNCHING, for those of you playing along at home...)

sounds like an irrelevant douche-bag.
-k
middle-school renaissance

i wrote the Dead; you can get it for free here.

Hairfoot

I don't know enough about Skarka to think he's an idiot, let alone hate him.  Quite a few people seem to think well of him, so he can't be all that terrible.

In this case, however, he's written a lazy and poorly-researched blog entry which flogs a very dead horse, at a time when the hobby, if not the industry, is buoyant and stands to beneift greatly from enthusiasm and positivity.

Insufficient Metal

Oh wow, I read the comments on his blog. I shouldn't have done that.

I'll give him this much, if anyone has the ego necessary to make it in this apparently dying business, he does.