And just for the record, what has happened in this thread is exactly what I predicted would happen.

Quote from: The Traveller;707108Eh, this isn't the 1970s anymore, you don't need to take out a full page ad in the Times to get the word out about something. Even the bare fact of say the guys working on D&D Next declaring they're no longer working on a roleplaying game but a * game would create seismic ripples throughout the internet.

Saying it's because they're tired of being confused with CRPGs would multiply the effect considerably, with legions of butthurt computer gamers queuing up to register complaints. It's not that hard to get people to do your marketing for you if you play it right, hence viral videos. One press release, a bit of editing, and the ball would be rolling.

Quote from: Arduin;708078:rotfl:

Oh yeah I wasn't actually kidding. He tried to pull a banbait maneuver here of all places. Come into the thread, escalate then whip out the pre-planned context free quote list after reporting a post.

One must question the wisdom of such a stunt hereabouts, in particular when one's username is a political statement, given that such statements are forbidden on therpgsite. I recall ghost whistler had an ode to someone's hatred of the british conservative party in his sig before the pundit told him to remove it. It's as though one had the username "ToryParty".

And to take umbrage at comparisons to equivalent movements, well that's just the icing on the cake.

Anyway as I said, on ignore now.

I'm gonna temporarily ignore your bizarre trolling of various posters in this thread, and especially your obsessively creepy trolling of soviet. Instead, I'll attempt to focus on your actual points.

Quote from: The Traveller;706910Okay let me break it down

-  Most people see RPGs, the term and the concept as computer games. This is beyond dispute.

This is debatable. I googled role-playing games, and one of the very first links it shows me is on Wikipedia. The first two pictures on there are of polyhedral dice, and then of a group of people sitting around a table...playing a tabletop roleplaying game. It also discusses varieties of role-playing games, and tabletop rpgs are the very first RPGs brought up. Then it brings up live action rpgs (LARPs), and then electronic media...

I suspect that the majority of gamers are aware of the various types of RPGs. Gamers do pay much more attention right now to electronic media, but I don't think the situation was quite this bad before 4e fragmented both the hobby and the industry. So...no big surprise there.

Quote from: The Traveller- In the unlikely event that someone comes across TTRPGs they will more than likely see them as a primitive version of CRPGs, and move on

The multiple varieties of RPG are sufficiently different from each other, so while that might be true for some people....that might not be the case for the majority of gamers.

Quote from: The Traveller- A different name, seperate branding for TTRPGs will allow the industry to highlight the many advantages that TTRPGs have over CRPGs, and they are real, substantial advantages

What name? What "different branding"? How will this "different name" highlight the advantages of TTRPGs over CRPGs? And what advantages are they? If I'm a player of CRPGs, then you need to quickly and clearly communicate this. :pundit:

Quote from: The Traveller- If this happens I would expect the popularity of TTRPGs to blossom as a hobby in their own right rather than as version one of CRPGs

Tabletop RPGs are not a version of CRPGs, but they are both RPGs. What name change will make tabletop RPGs...."blossom"?

Quote from: The Traveller- Ergo every RPG publisher could expect a sharp uptick in their earnings

Do you actually believe this, or are you just fucking with everyone? I honestly can't tell at this point.

Quote from: The TravellerNB: I'm not downplaying the value of computer games, they do what they do quite well, and this includes things that TTRPGs can't. But, and vice-versa.

Let's think about this for a minute. You're strongly advocating this....

(1.) WoTC suddenly decides to "rebrand" tabletop roleplaying games....by not calling them roleplaying games any more.

(2.) Paizo suddenly decides to "rebrand" tabletop roleplaying games....by not calling them roleplaying games any more.

(3.) Over 90% of the smaller RPG publishers spontaneously decides to "rebrand" tabletop roleplaying games....by not calling them roleplaying games any more.

(4.) Over 90% of the tabletop RPG hobbyists spontaneously decides to agree with you, and ignore nearly 40 years of tabletop RPG history.....by not calling them roleplaying games any more.

(5.) Over 90% of the existing tabletop RPG websites spontaneously become edited....in order to eliminate confusion, and are labelled as.....something else.

(6.) Over 90% of existing tabletop RPGs are given a new edition or printing.....in order to make it clear that they aren't RPGs. They're.....something else.

You assert that if these directions are followed, RPG publishers will magically see a large increase in sales.

Have I missed anything, or are there any other bizarre proclamations you wish to share? No offense, chief....but your arguments aren't just obnoxious. They're horribly weak, with no basis in fact. If I were you, I'd save all that excess energy you have...for starting up a soup kitchen instead. :cool:

Well baby step number one would be actually coming up with this brand new name whatever it is that is awesome and that everyone should start calling tabletop RPGs now.

Quote from: The Traveller;708103The ensuing murderous rage and attempts to get the thread shut down highlights that this is exactly the right approach to take, assuming several in this thread are representative of the MMO community (and they certainly claim to be). A simple suggestion, not offensive and certainly supportable by the facts, and the hardcore MMOers will be frothing at the mouth.

Which is a good thing in terms of coverage and awareness for the hobby.

There's no murderous rage.  Most people are just reacting to provocative statements.

First of all, you haven't suddenly attracted new people here, you're dealing with the existing people.  Most people at TheRPGSite are Tabletop gamers, and some like both, but I doubt anybody here only plays CRPGs.

When you make a statement like "Seriously though this cunning plan has a shelf life, they're going to start forklifting these guys out of their parents' basements in their late thirties and early forties when the wave of heart attacks and strokes thin the herd. Fanatical MMO players will in truth be a dying breed.", I react not because I play MMORPGs, because I don't.

I react because that statement is either something you believe to be true, or you are trolling.  If it's the latter, well played.  But if it's the former, and you believe as a tabletop gamer you are superior to a CRPGer, well, that's hypocritical and the pot calling the kettle black, since like I said, that stereotype started with the tabletop guys.  

The key thing is, to use an analogy, you are making the equivalent of a racist or sexist remark, but the reaction here is not the race or opposite sex coming in to rage, but you're getting your own kind reacting because they are embarrassed that somebody thinks this way.  

And that's what I predict will happen with this ill-conceived plan.  You think that a sudden marketing campaign designed to "troll" the CRPG gamers will bring new people into the hobby.  

If you are sticking to your first point, you can do that without going negative.  

But if you really change the name, it's NOT going to be the only CRPGers who come here.  You'll get arguments from people who actually play the Tabletop stuff.  You'd have to make a really huge thing to get this to work--but based on what others have remarked on here, you won't see much reaction.  I remember when the D&D license was a big deal for computer games, but nobody cares much these days, they have their own concerns like DRM, "dumbing down of RPGs", offenses made by Bioware having a few mediocre games, etc.  

Believe me, this won't be a blip on the radar to them.  

Meantime, you could actually have some people here leave this hobby because they are put off by somebody trying to change what RPGs are called.  The hobby needs to be more welcoming and adapt to the future.  Going the other way is doomed to failure.  I get some people think negative attention like the Satanic Panic helped D&D, but I'm not convinced it will work when competing with the vastly more popular competitor.

Soviet and Traveller, at this point I would STRONGLY urge both of you to Ignore List each other.

Failing that, sooner or later I figure one or both of you are going to end up being sanctioned here; and I wouldn't suggest either of you bet on the odds that its only going to be the other guy.

RPGPundit

Quote from: Sacrificial Lamb;708166I'm gonna temporarily ignore your bizarre trolling

Allow me to return the favour, and thanks for ratcheting it up. You're making my point for me.

Quote from: Imp;708172Well baby step number one would be actually coming up with this brand new name whatever it is that is awesome and that everyone should start calling tabletop RPGs now.

True true. I've a few ideas but nothing solid just yet.

Quote from: JRT;708173When you make a statement like "Seriously though this cunning plan has a shelf life, they're going to start forklifting these guys out of their parents' basements in their late thirties and early forties when the wave of heart attacks and strokes thin the herd. Fanatical MMO players will in truth be a dying breed.", I react not because I play MMORPGs, because I don't.

I react because that statement is either something you believe to be true, or you are trolling.  If it's the latter, well played.  But if it's the former, and you believe as a tabletop gamer you are superior to a CRPGer, well, that's hypocritical and the pot calling the kettle black, since like I said, that stereotype started with the tabletop guys.  

I don't see TTRPGers keeling over dead at their TTRPGs. If that offends you I don't care. Note that this isn't claiming TTRPGs are superior to CRPGs, just different.

The idea is to get the fanatical types to do what they've been doing in this thread, and use the echoes to raise awareness among those who are more normal. Not really that hard of a concept to wrap your head around.

Quote from: The Traveller;708175If that offends you I don't care.

The idea is to get the fanatical types to do what they've been doing in this thread, and use the echoes to raise awareness among those who are more normal. Not really that hard of a concept to wrap your head around.

I'm not offended but I don't think you realize that saying that makes you look dickish.

I get the concept, I just wonder why you think or want negative attention.  If you have to get people talking about RPGs by causing fights, I think you're gonna lose that battle and have some potential fallout or blowback from that.

Quote from: JRT;708177I'm not offended but I don't think you realize that saying that makes you look dickish.

I get the concept, I just wonder why you think or want negative attention.  If you have to get people talking about RPGs by causing fights, I think you're gonna lose that battle and have some potential fallout or blowback from that.

Eh no, you tried to do glorious battle on the safe and comfortable grounds of relative objective superiority. When you realised nobody was actually talking about that you fell back on being offended and general wang waving about hobby sizes. The most dedicated long term MMO players are, in my opinion, going to experience harsh consequences for a severely sedentary lifestyle. Many of them already are. Maybe my comment will jog a few of them out of it, who knows.

Anyway yeah, I think the strategy outlined above has a good chance of increasing the number of gamers and the overall size of the hobby.

Quote from: The Traveller;708180Eh no, you tried to do glorious battle on the safe and comfortable grounds of relative objective superiority. When you realised nobody was actually talking about that...

Anyway yeah, I think the strategy outlined above has a good chance of increasing the number of gamers and the overall size of the hobby.

The problem is, instead of actually debating the pros and cons like most of us are, you're just threadcrapping--why even bring up the health of MMORPGers--it's pretty off topic.  Your not reaching any of them here.  

So, either just stick to debating the merits of your plans and provide counter-arguments when people bring up their flaws, or just stay silent, but getting into nastiness is not helping your cause.

Quote from: JRT;708187The problem is, instead of actually debating the pros and cons like most of us are, you're just threadcrapping--why even bring up the health of MMORPGers--it's pretty off topic.  Your not reaching any of them here.  

So, either just stick to debating the merits of your plans and provide counter-arguments when people bring up their flaws, or just stay silent, but getting into nastiness is not helping your cause.

You, personally, have completely misrepresented almost everything that's been said by me and then fell back on being offended. Which is pretty much what I said was going to happen, and it did indeed happen. Another poster above ran right past the idea of highlighting TTRPGs' unique strengths and fixated on the name change, dripping with sarcasm as he bumbled.

A press release as described isn't an attempt to troll anyone, and I'm certainly not advocating going on troll runs into MMO forums. Way too much like hard work. What I said was that hardcore MMO players would get wound up to ninety over such an idea, and that's what happened. Possibly other demographics will get excited for their own reasons, but dedicated MMO players were the first that sprang to mind. And here we are.

And I mean why. There's no threat to MMOs at all from such a plan. TTRPGs are never going to get more than a fraction of the sales even a moderately successful MMO gets, although I'd expect it to be a lot more than they get now, and even then there's nothing at all stopping people from enjoying both pastimes.

This is like the argument that never was.

Quote from: Imp;708172Well baby step number one would be actually coming up with this brand new name whatever it is that is awesome and that everyone should start calling tabletop RPGs now.

"Penis Enlargment Games"

Quote from: TristramEvans;708200"Penis Enlargment Games"

Given the way this thread has gone, this is probably pretty accurate.

Quote from: TristramEvans;708200"Penis Enlargment Games"

I've had pretty good luck communicating with the uninitiated by just calling them all "D&D."

Quote from: TristramEvans;708200"Penis Enlargment Games"

although now that I think about it, I wonder if Pinnacle Entertainment Group was aware of this mutation of their acronym.