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Tabletop RPGs vs. video games: the former are 'better'

Started by elfandghost, November 10, 2013, 03:30:46 AM

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The Traveller

#15
November 10, 2013, 01:11:27 PM
Quote from: Arduin;706780There is no such thing as a CRPG.  The computer can't determine if you are Roleplaying.  The computer can't RP either.  Ergo, it is just a computer game...
Yes.

Quote from: Omega;706785I agree. But people out there keep calling them RPGs.
Then again there are people out there calling pick-your-path books RPGs...
The misappropriation of our hobby's title seems to be standard practise in some circles.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;706791I swear, statements like this just reek of geek elitism and are absolute bullshit.
FPS, adventure game, MMOG, these are all accurate terms for many computer games. RPGs in the sense of expressing a character's personality by immersion in an infinitely reactive world, this belongs entirely to tabletop (or G+ I suppose). There's nothing elitist or exclusionary about saying as much, nor indeed anything derogatory.

Saying one is better than the other is a bit silly though. As others have opined, it's chalk and cheese; I don't eat chalk and I don't use cheese to scribble rude graffiti on the pavement outside the houses of shared narrative gamers.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

elfandghost

#16
November 10, 2013, 01:19:29 PM
If some software developer ever got around to developing a true (as possible) role-play game where combat was a small part or the game, no one would by it. The only chance of actually selling a game like that would be by not calling it an RPG; is that not ironic?
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

dragoner

#17
November 10, 2013, 01:25:50 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706792The misappropriation of our hobby's title seems to be standard practise in some circles.

Maybe so, but it is a run deal, it is the computer games that own "rpg" now; search any engine for "rpg" and it is all computer or online stuff on the first page. People often make the complaint that someone is "stealing their tag", but what becomes the most common in popular vernacular, also becomes the most common meaning as well.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#18
November 10, 2013, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: dragoner;706797Maybe so, but it is a run deal, it is the computer games that own "rpg" now; search any engine for "rpg" and it is all computer or online stuff on the first page. People often make the complaint that someone is "stealing their tag", but what becomes the most common in popular vernacular, also becomes the most common meaning as well.
This is why I've often argued that the hobby needs a new name - the notion that TT is v1.0 and computer games are v2.0 is something that needs to die. Storygames would have been an excellent title but eh...

...I suppose we could always misappropriate their name. :D
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

elfandghost

#19
November 10, 2013, 01:36:57 PM
This is the danger to me, if it hasn't already occurred (hence 4th edition D&D?). Do people coming into the hobby expect tabletop RPGs to be like their computer counterparts, combat, special effects, little dialogue, focus on killing, treasure - being the main focus and not needing to work within a team? Or, as it always been like that? Secondly, do tabletop RPGs need a new name if so to separate them?

I would suggest Character and Adventure Games. Not sure how that goes down,  i.e. theCAAGSite?
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn

Arduin

#20
November 10, 2013, 01:42:54 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;706791I think you need to go look up the definition of a role-playing game.

One must look up the definitions of the words used in a phrase.  It is a basic literacy test.  So, go see if you can do it.

dragoner

#21
November 10, 2013, 01:51:54 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706800This is why I've often argued that the hobby needs a new name - the notion that TT is v1.0 and computer games are v2.0 is something that needs to die. Storygames would have been an excellent title but eh...

...I suppose we could always misappropriate their name. :D

"Real RPG's" or maybe "Original RPG's"? Hrmmm ... "Interactive RPG's"; irpg has a nice ring to it, but that name seems well used also. Though I'm not so offended at the term rpg being spread around, it does add more legitimacy to the term. Computer rpg's did start from table top rpg's, though it is an apples to oranges kind of deal, so v2.0 doesn't actually work; maybe v1.2: relative but different. Then again, both table top and computer rpg's suffer from insane internecine naming wars it seems.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

dragoner

#22
November 10, 2013, 01:58:55 PM
Quote from: elfandghost;706801Not sure how that goes down,  i.e. theCAAGSite?

Funny thing is that I first heard about here, I looked for rpgsite.com, without the "the" and found a final fantasy site. I thought huh? and moved on thinking there was nothing to see. IMO, names, Juliet says it best:

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet...

The better is to focus on the game and not the name, really.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#23
November 10, 2013, 02:01:21 PM
Quote from: elfandghost;706801This is the danger to me, if it hasn't already occurred (hence 4th edition D&D?). Do people coming into the hobby expect tabletop RPGs to be like their computer counterparts, combat, special effects, little dialogue, focus on killing, treasure - being the main focus and not needing to work within a team? Or, as it always been like that? Secondly, do tabletop RPGs need a new name if so to separate them?

I would suggest Character and Adventure Games. Not sure how that goes down,  i.e. theCAAGSite?

Quote from: dragoner;706809Funny thing is that I first heard about here, I looked for rpgsite.com, without the "the" and found a final fantasy site. I thought huh? and moved on thinking there was nothing to see. IMO, names, Juliet says it best:

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet...

The better is to focus on the game and not the name, really.
Here's my previous thread on the topic.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Raven

#24
November 10, 2013, 02:06:53 PM
Can anyone identify this die?

TristramEvans

#25
November 10, 2013, 02:10:07 PM
Quote from: elfandghost;706796If some software developer ever got around to developing a true (as possible) role-play game where combat was a small part or the game, no one would by it. The only chance of actually selling a game like that would be by not calling it an RPG; is that not ironic?

I don't think that's true.

I grew up playing Kings Quest.

dragoner

#26
November 10, 2013, 02:11:04 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706810Here's my previous thread on the topic.

That looks like it is round robin as well; maybe just saying "old school" is best.
The most beautiful peonies I ever saw ... were grown in almost pure cat excrement.
-Vonnegut

The Traveller

#27
November 10, 2013, 02:16:01 PM
Quote from: dragoner;706816That looks like it is round robin as well; maybe just saying "old school" is best.
Certainly it shows a lack of inspiration, not so much due to apathy but rather to the way we're actually all pretty happy doing what we do already.

On a broader level however I'm keenly aware that the hobby isn't going to get the coverage it deserves as long as it labours in the shadow of computer games calling themselves RPGs. I mean this stuff is a ton o'fun, I want more people to be aware of that.

Ergo, we need a new name.
"These children are playing with dark and dangerous powers!"
"What else are you meant to do with dark and dangerous powers?"
A concise overview of GNS theory.
Quote from: that muppet vince baker on RPGsIf you care about character arcs or any, any, any lit 101 stuff, I\'d choose a different game.

Sacrosanct

#28
November 10, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706792Yes.


The misappropriation of our hobby's title seems to be standard practise in some circles.


FPS, adventure game, MMOG, these are all accurate terms for many computer games. RPGs in the sense of expressing a character's personality by immersion in an infinitely reactive world, this belongs entirely to tabletop (or G+ I suppose). There's nothing elitist or exclusionary about saying as much, nor indeed anything derogatory.

Saying one is better than the other is a bit silly though. As others have opined, it's chalk and cheese; I don't eat chalk and I don't use cheese to scribble rude graffiti on the pavement outside the houses of shared narrative gamers.

by the definition of "role-playing game", they very much are just that.  No one gives a fuck about your or mine personal tastes that change that definition.  It's like someone saying a Toyota Tacoma isn't a real truck because they prefer a full sized rig with a v8.  They clearly fit the definition, therefore they are
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

elfandghost

#29
November 10, 2013, 02:24:38 PM
Quote from: The Traveller;706818Certainly it shows a lack of inspiration, not so much due to apathy but rather to the way we're actually all pretty happy doing what we do already.

On a broader level however I'm keenly aware that the hobby isn't going to get the coverage it deserves as long as it labours in the shadow of computer games calling themselves RPGs. I mean this stuff is a ton o'fun, I want more people to be aware of that.

Ergo, we need a new name.

If I was making an tabletop RPG, or in charge of such a project I would make sure the name RPG was no where near it. Adventure Game or Character and Adventure Game for me.
Mythras * Call of Cthulhu * OD&Dn
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