I didn't want to derail the thread on systemless setting books, but I've got this question:

What kind of market is there for new systemless settings?

I'm working on a new edition of Terracide (for Savage Worlds) and I'm going to self-publish. However, I've had a number of industry wonks recommend that I start off with a smaller project. (the SW Terracide book will be approx 200 pages)

So I'm thinking of doing a smaller pre-release with just the setting information; maybe about 64 pages. I just have to wonder if 64 pages of systemless not the same old space opera would be interesting to the RPG community.

PS: moderators, if this should be moved to the Game Design and Development forum, please do so. Thanks.

I almost always make my own settings, and rarely even use same-system settings books, but I do sometimes buy them and use them for inspiration, data, ideas, or mechanics or snippits of content to adapt into my own settings.

Even with good roleplayers there can be a temptation for them to browse the module you're using, and they may have played or browsed such books even before they were a player in your game, so it seems a bit odd to just use a settings book unless most/all of the content is just general info most people in the setting would have anyway and yet somehow it's something I'd want to play (which is almost never the case for me).

So I almost never use them as written, but have bought many of them for inspiration/ideas/minor-content-use.

I never understood why systemless setting books never caught on. It certainly beats the "system retread" every RPG ends up doing, and keeps the central narrative unified between several different authors.

DMs buy the books either because the premise interests them.
Or so they can mine it for ideas.
Or as a quick fallback when you draw a blank.
Or as recreational reading.
Or to see how someone else went about building a world, or at least try and puzzle it out if no guidelines were given in the process.
Or they like some element of the setting but not the setting itself. Like a kingdom, culture or race.

Players may buy the book for character or culture ideas, or to help a DM they know sucks at making their own settings.

The reason they do not catch on as much is that they are oft in competition with a systems established setting. They work best with settingless systems like Gurps, BESM, even Mekton or nominally AD&D/BX which while they had settings, they tend to be very vague till later.

I would buy system less setting books. I don't mind hacking various systems to fit various settings anyway. Besides I feel like when system information isn't included their is more room for setting information.

I'm hoping somebody sees it and decides to do a FATE conversion.

Because I've tried to read/play FATE several times and I can't grok it.

I've never had much use for setting books (since it's pretty easy to come up with a setting, IMHO), but I think many people just buy RPG books to read or mine ideas from.

Quote from: Skarg;832215I almost always make my own settings, and rarely even use same-system settings books, but I do sometimes buy them and use them for inspiration, data, ideas, or mechanics or snippits of content to adapt into my own settings.

I do this, and I buy systemless setting books for that sole reason.

Quote from: ZWEIHÄNDER;832223I never understood why systemless setting books never caught on. It certainly beats the "system retread" every RPG ends up doing, and keeps the central narrative unified between several different authors.

The bestselling RPG products remain those with direct applicability to the gaming table. So system-less anything has a steep road to climb and system-less settings an even steeper road.

GURPS managed to present a pretty effective third option by producing hundreds of settings for a single, generic set of rules. Other generic systems have had varying degrees of success with the same. Almost certainly the better way to go.

One of the other downsides of a systemless setting book is that any odd races or items presented the DM is going to have to puzzle out their system equivalents.

For some that is more hassle than they want for whatever reason. For others it is fine or may even be a selling point.

Quote from: Omega;832338One of the other downsides of a systemless setting book is that any odd races or items presented the DM is going to have to puzzle out their system equivalents.

For some that is more hassle than they want for whatever reason. For others it is fine or may even be a selling point.

True enough. It depends on the reader, and the system in question. For an avid reader with a high level of system mastery, converting new stuff to their favorite rules set is practically a calling. I know a couple of RPG communities with fans who love doing this sort of thing.

And for others, it's like, "Hey, where's the rest of this RPG?"

I've got a home-brewed setting I have worked on for years (hasn't everyone?). I've thought about releasing it, but I use it with some less-popular systems. A 3rd party Hero System fantasy setting from an unknown is likely to sell about 3 copies. So I could make it systemless, or write it up as OSR or something...no really good options.

Quote from: The_Shadow;832399I've got a home-brewed setting I have worked on for years (hasn't everyone?). I've thought about releasing it, but I use it with some less-popular systems. A 3rd party Hero System fantasy setting from an unknown is likely to sell about 3 copies. So I could make it systemless, or write it up as OSR or something...no really good options.

Mine started out as a home-brewed setting (like so many others) and got published as a 3rd party Hero System science fiction setting. For a project like that, it's not necessarily the sales figures, it's just a place to start. I'm still basically an unknown author at this point.

It sold OK, all things considered. (IOW, not great.) And it got some decent reviews, which led to a license for Savage Worlds. Then I decided to self-publish. Now I'm looking at a system-less version basically so I can do something a bit smaller before tackling a 200 page RPG source book.

Quote from: The_Shadow;832399I've got a home-brewed setting I have worked on for years (hasn't everyone?). I've thought about releasing it, but I use it with some less-popular systems. A 3rd party Hero System fantasy setting from an unknown is likely to sell about 3 copies. So I could make it systemless, or write it up as OSR or something...no really good options.

You want to make 10k in the RPG business?  You start with 20k.

Don't do it for the money, do it because you love it, and want to share.

I often find that 'systemless' material is weak because it is written to be generic and thus colourless - when it's the colour that I'm primarily after. So strongly themed material for a system I don't use may often be a better purchase (leaving aside terrible crap like d20 Mars where they just reprint the d20 or d20 Modern SRD with a light skim of genre). The best systemless material has a strong theme, eg Legacy of the Crystal Shard's "D&D in the frozen north", that I can easily stat up for my preferred system.