Currently listening to: Try Me by J Boogie feat. Goapele, Capitol A.

So gotta quick question for all y'all 'ta answer:

There's roughly three categories of RPG games out there if looking from primarily mechanical POV I can think of. You've got your heavyweights, middleweights and lightweights.

Where would you put any given P'n'P games that immediately come to mind for you in one of these categories? Focus is on the *engine* powering the game's mechanics, not the game itself. The prevalence of the engine in the game and the complexity of it.

For me, I immediately think:

Heavy = HERO, WHRP, D20, Shadowrun (I call it ShadowSYS)

Medium = Storytelling, Savage Worlds, Unisystem

Light = FATE

Again, what immediately comes to mind. It'd just be interesting to see what people think of first for each category.

Not too long ago, I was trying to get a co-worker to try Mekton.  I let him look at the corebook to get an idea of how it worked.

This guy plays D&D 3.5, Pathfinder, the Warhammer 40K games, Palladium games, and Hackmaster 4e with all the rules.  He considers those games rules light.

Well, when he looked at Mekton, he told me that it was too rules heavy to realistically play.  Now, if I take him at face value, and I have no reason not to, he considers games with literally 1,000 or more pages of rules as trivially simple, but basic Mekton without MTS as too complicated to bother with.

To me, it's the complete opposite.  I find games like D&D 3.5, Pathfinder, the Warhammer 40K games, Hero 5, and stuff like that to be rules heavy.  Meanwhile things like Mekton are rules light with maybe MTS slipping into the rules medium zone.

Light = TFOS, Mekton II or Z without MTS, BESM1e, Buffy is kind of on the very border, X-Wing Miniatures, Silent Death

Medium = Fuzion with lots of dials on, BESM2e, BESM 3e, AD&D 2e, Descent: Journeys in the Dark

Heavy = AD&D1e if it's actually played as 1e, D&D 3.5e/Pathfinder, Hero 5, Star Fleet Battles

FATE isn't light, it's solidly medium. Dresden Files is in the medium-heavy end of the spectrum.

Quote from: Kiero;769967FATE isn't light . . .

Yeah, FATE wants to be light, but it most definitely isn't.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;770008Yeah, FATE wants to be light, but it most definitely isn't.

I agree, FATE is a medium game.

Id rate Mekton as Medium, but its not an RPG really, its a mecha wargame pretending to be a RPG.

The Fantasy Trip might fall into the light side. But from what I have seen, the advanced rules and the TFT part push it into the medium.

BX D&D is light. To me. Pretty easy system.

One of the problems of trying to rate a game is that often the core is very light. But the situational mechanics make it appear medium or heavy.
AD&D is the prime example.

Quote from: Black Vulmea;770008Yeah, FATE wants to be light, but it most definitely isn't.

I'd agree for Fate 3.0.

I think Fate Core gets into "light" territory, or at least medium-light.  While the book's pretty long, it's mostly advice and examples, with a few options.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;769954There's roughly three categories of RPG games out there if looking from primarily mechanical POV I can think of. You've got your heavyweights, middleweights and lightweights.

I have six: Rules breadth (weight) and Rules intricacy (complexity).

For example, I consider Savage Worlds a Medium weight Low complexity game.

Quote from: Kiero;769967FATE isn't light, it's solidly medium. Dresden Files is in the medium-heavy end of the spectrum.

Depends which version of Fate it is. Fate Accelerated Edition is pretty light, I think.

I wrote a 1-page RPG for a contest. Light.

I judge system weight by how large of a bug it will crush if dropped from waist height.

Paperbacks tend to be lighter than hardcovers, except for Rifts.

Quote from: snooggums;770181I judge system weight by how large of a bug it will crush if dropped from waist height.

Paperbacks tend to be lighter than hardcovers, except for Rifts.

What if you are very short?

Speaking of actual book density...

Palladiums books usually have a nice heft to them. TSR era hardbacks tended to be fairly solid too, aside from Unearthed Arcana...

A real oddity was the TORG novels. For some reason these books feel like solid blocks of wood.

I may have to write a truly dense and heavy one page rpg.  Can I at least use 7 point type?

Use microfiche dots for all I care. That would be hardcore.

Quote from: Scott Anderson;770211Use microfiche dots for all I care. That would be hardcore.

That is the font for 75% of the @#$%^&ing CCG rulebooks from the 90s!!!

Okay, I've banged it out.

http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=30106

It's one page in nine point type and needs a fair bit of work / revision.  But I think it's basically sound.  I might go to seven point type to fit a little more in.