Like it says really, but unfortunately I have conditions that I suspect may not be capable of being fulfilled:

- Fast chargen
- Relatively traditional structure, I don't for this want free form traits or player narration or any of that stuff
- Quick combat
- Supports credible characters, people you could actually meet (and incidentally I have met some very competent people, but real world still)
- Not too complex but not so rules light that it's basically an unfinished game
- Aiming for realism, not for cinematic action
- Preferably not dicepool based, I just don't especially like them
- Not class based

Any thoughts?  I suspect I have other criteria too but I'm really struggling here.  Something like a modern day WFRP would be cool, but that definitely doesn't exist.

I'm thinking of running some games set now or in the recent past and am also thinking of some possible near future apocalypse stuff but am really struggling for a system.

Gurps and Hero are both way, way too heavy for me and utterly fail the quick chargen test (yes, I know a group steeped in these games can be quite quick, but that's not my group).

Any thoughts?

Mercenaries, Spies, and Private Eyes. Your criteria were such perfect bait for this game to be mentioned that I fear some sort of trap being sprung when I hit "submit reply."

d20 Modern with a fixed level and no or deliberate progression has worked for me in the past for this.

I forget what your opinion was on the One Roll Engine, but have a look at either NEMESIS or the MARINER preview, which I adapted directly from NEMESIS for a contemporary setting.

The ORE runs fast, creates believeable characters quickly with a traditional structure, and is not class-based.  It does, however, use dice pools.  Sorry, only seven out of your eight criteria.

!i!

Except the dicepool thingie, WoD is what you want (and dicepools are not very big). ORE is also a great choice.

All Flesh Must Be Eaten fits all those criteria.  Really well, I think it would be the ideal system for this.

In fact it's pretty much meant to be the "normal to very competent people in post-apoc" game.

Quote from: ImperatorExcept the dicepool thingie, WoD is what you want (and dicepools are not very big).

Which is also a word in defense of the ORE -- dice pools in both games will seldom be larger than 4 to 6 dice when you're not playing with the supernatural elements.  Normal people have very manageable dice pools.

!i!

Pools can get fairly high for mortals in nWoD, especially if Equipment and situational modifiers come into play.  Willpower expenditure can also push them up.

"Traveller: New Era" or similar GDW games might be useful, their career-based generation comes close to "modern day" WFRP, although I don't know about the "quick combat" requirement...

CORPS was a nice system, rather fast task resolution and pretty decent character generation. If I'm not mistaken, it's successor EABA uses dice pools. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi...

OMNI is a pretty decent rules-lite system, based on Talislanta (but with actual character generation now). Runs quite fast, although it might be a bit too simple for your tastes.

I haven't actually tested it, but "Cold Space" seems to have some good rules, plus career-based character generation.

Classic Unisystem, as in All Flesh Must Be Eaten is quick enough, although you still have ads/disads -- not on par with GURPS, but if your players like to fidget about that, it might slow things down, too.

Quote from: ImperatorExcept the dicepool thingie, WoD is what you want (and dicepools are not very big). ORE is also a great choice.

This was my thought too, but since I bought Balbinus' entire nWoD mortals collection, I think we can safely say that he's not interested

My only suggestion would be True20, but that's on very limited play experience.  It may be too toolbox-y or needs too much kit-bashing for his tastes as well.

Quote from: C.W.RichesonPools can get fairly high for mortals in nWoD, especially if Equipment and situational modifiers come into play.  Willpower expenditure can also push them up.

Ah.  I must still have my mind fixed in the oWoD, but even that could get pumped up situationally.  And, anyway, as Moriarty pointed out, Balbinus ditched his nWoD books.

!i!

Quote from: SosthenesCORPS was a nice system, rather fast task resolution and pretty decent character generation. If I'm not mistaken, it's successor EABA uses dice pools. Sic Transit Gloria Mundi....

That's accurate. The larger, multi-genre version of CORPS can get a little messy during character generation. If you can find the older, smaller conspiracy-based version, it runs lightly yet completely, quickly, and only presents modern-day/near-future options, so character generation is swift. Both are good choices.

Yes, CORPS. Four-page intro pdf available here:

http://www.btrc.net/html/suppmain.html#CORPS

This thread makes me sad, because I'd really like to be able to recommend my own system, but it's not done yet.  

I'll add in another vote for CORPS by BTRC.  Chargen goes pretty quick as long as the GM decides on the appropriate skills in advance.  Flexible because you can allow players to add additional skills if needed.  Combat can bog down if you use too many advanced optional rules, so I recommend keeping it to basics until you're familiar with it, and then adding in optional rules if and when you decide you want them.  Done this way, combat will go pretty quickly.

I can guarantee that after the first firefight the PCs will be desperate for bodyarmor and cover if gunfire breaks out.  

It uses a single d10 resolution system, and if the modified difficulty of the task is lower than the PC's skill, then no roll is needed.  Check out the nutshell version of the rules linked above to see what you think.