Quote from: Aglondir;954506Not a fan of step 3. Don't want another step; don't want to roll a d3. It's why I dislike the original KA mechanic. But otherwise, it's good.

Fair enough. My problem with Killing Attacks was how wildly swingy their Stun totals could be which could make them more efficient for generating Stun than normal attacks particularly when Increased Stun Multiplier was brought into play. (aka: The Stun Lotto effect) so my solutions tended to focus on that aspect.

Instead of a Body Multiplier for Killing Attacks what about just changing how Body is determined?

A face value of:

1-4 = 1 Body
5-6 = 2 Body

Instead of the usual range

1      0 Body
2-5   1 Body
6      2 Body

Quote from: Aglondir;953758Or maybe I might to do this:

1. There are no KA's or RKA's. Damage is damage.
2. There are no Resistant Defenses. Defenses are defenses.
3. Make STUN = Hit Points.  
4. If your HP <= 0 from a lethal attack, you're dying, blah blah blah.
5. If your HP <= 0 from a non-lethal attack, you're knocked out, blah blah blah.

How would being reduced to zero or less HP from a combination of attacks be handled? Would it only what type of attack put the character below the threshold?

Quote from: Nexus;959972How would being reduced to zero or less HP from a combination of attacks be handled? Would it only what type of attack put the character below the threshold?

Good question. Two possible answers:

1. Death is determined by the attack that reduced you below the threshold.

Example A: A taser attack (non-lethal) reduces you to 1 HP, and then you get shot (lethal) for -25 HP. You're dead.
Example B: You get shot (lethal) which reduces you to 1 HP, and then get hit with a taser (non-lethal) for -25 HP. You're unconscious.

It gets more complicated when you alternate lethal and non-lethal attacks in equal measure (e.g. tased, shot, tased, shot, etc.) In that case, the GM could take into account what caused the majority of damage.

2. Use the D20 non-lethal rules, where non-lethal damage accumulates. Probably one of my favorite mechanics. But it's moving further away from Hero.

Quote from: Aglondir;9602762. Use the D20 non-lethal rules, where non-lethal damage accumulates. Probably one of my favorite mechanics. But it's moving further away from Hero.

I'm not familiar with those rules.

Quote from: Nexus;960288I'm not familiar with those rules.

Quote from: 3.5 SRDCertain attacks deal nonlethal damage. Other effects, such as heat or being exhausted, also deal nonlethal damage. When you take nonlethal damage, keep a running total of how much you've accumulated. Do not deduct the nonlethal damage number from your current hit points. It is not "real" damage. Instead, when your nonlethal damage equals your current hit points, you're staggered, and when it exceeds your current hit points, you fall unconscious. It doesn't matter whether the nonlethal damage equals or exceeds your current hit points because the nonlethal damage has gone up or because your current hit points have gone down.

Example: Avenger has 20 HP. On round 1 he is shot for 15 damage, so he has 5 HP left. Next round he gets tased for 6 NLD. Since 6>5, he's knocked out. NLD fades 1 HP/hour/level.

Quote from: Aglondir;960441Example: Avenger has 20 HP. On round 1 he is shot for 15 damage, so he has 5 HP left. Next round he gets tased for 6 NLD. Since 6>5, he's knocked out. NLD fades 1 HP/hour/level.

Oh okay. Thank you.

Quote from: Nexus;959971Instead of a Body Multiplier for Killing Attacks what about just changing how Body is determined?

A face value of:

1-4 = 1 Body
5-6 = 2 Body

Instead of the usual range

1      0 Body
2-5   1 Body
6      2 Body

Anyone have any thoughts on this approach? It was entirely off the cuff.

Quote from: Nexus;962320Anyone have any thoughts on this approach? It was entirely off the cuff.

Can you give an example of how it would work in play?

First, sorry this thread completely slipped my mind.

When you roll for Normal damage a value of 1 on the die generate 0 Body, 2-4 is 1 Body and 6 generate 2 Body.

As an alterate for Killing Damage, roll them as you would Normal (1 six sided die per Damage Class) but a value of 1 on the die generaes 1-4 generates 1 Body and 5-6 generates 2 Body. Which would create a base amount of Body equal to the Damage Class and slightly higher results on Average while Average Stun would remain the same and the Max possible Body would be the same (x2 Damage Class).  

Killing Attack Body would still only be stoped by Resistance Defense, an Die roll would be used for Knockback, etc.

For example, a Damage Class 6 attack the roll: 1 6 2 4 1 1 would generate:


Normal: 4 Body 15 Stun (bad roll!)

Killing: 7 Body 15 Stun

Using this House Rule

Killing doe more Body, the Stun Lotto effect is eliminated and there is no additional rolls need. Killing could just become and Advantage (+1/4 and +1/2?). For games that use Hit Location the Normal Damage Stun and Body Multipliers would apply to both types of Damage.

Quote from: Nexus;985493First, sorry this thread completely slipped my mind.

Thanks for the example; it looks like a fun variant.

However, after running a season of Hero (without any house rules) I've discovered there's just way too many rules for my Heroic investigative campaign. I will always enjoy playing Hero, and I do believe it's a masterpice of game design. But I'm going to switch to something else. Oddly, when I examine all of my proposed Hero "fixes" it starts to look a bit like Gurps.

Quote from: Aglondir;986068Thanks for the example; it looks like a fun variant.

However, after running a season of Hero (without any house rules) I've discovered there's just way too many rules for my Heroic investigative campaign. I will always enjoy playing Hero, and I do believe it's a masterpice of game design. But I'm going to switch to something else. Oddly, when I examine all of my proposed Hero "fixes" it starts to look a bit like Gurps.

I found the GURP has more rules than Hero System, IMO. I used Hero for more light, more cinematic games. But tastes are tastes. Good luck with the game.