I love rules lite.  I love little known TTRPGs.  And I really love it when they're also free. 

So this time it's Swords and Six Siders. 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/234805

It's old school D&D re-worked to only ever roll a 1D6. 

Here are a couple of features.

1.  Roll 1D6 three times to get half your stats, then invert them to get the other three (a 2, 2, and 4 also becomes a 5, 5, and 3).   Assign them yourself as you wish. 

2.  Rolling a six always succeeds.  Rolling a 1 always fails.  Target numbers and roll bonuses don't matter.

3.  Everyone is armor class 4.  A helmet or a shield each adds +1.  So what does body armor do?   Damage reduction.  Light armor reduces damage by 1, medium by 2, and heavy armor by 3 damage.  You'll always do 1 damage, though. 

4.  The stock game uses Vancian magic, but the expansion book has an optional power point system that lets a wizard spam the same spell repeatedly.

The expansion called Swords and Six Siders Companion is also free, and I recommend getting it just to expand the class list to have clerics and rangers (called a pathfinder here). 

What do you guys think?   Too simple?  Do you distrust free games as gimmicks?  Or is it too different?   Let's talk.

I have this in print, the full expanded edition and it seems like it would work well as a beer and pretzels game. It also has a scifi version called lasers and six-siders. I haven't had the opportunity to run it yet as my players dislike gaming with just d6s, so when I run old-school fantasy they request a d20 system.
I don't know if the system would be to my tastes for long-term play or anything serious since the odds of automatic success or failure are too high for my liking.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2023, 10:22:41 PM
What do you guys think? 

Pure shit like every modern "rules light" system that confuses "easy" with "light".
A real rules light game uses the least amount of rules to properly represent the setting: if in your default setting brutal combat with plenty of dismemberment is the norm, your "light rules" must include hit locations and localized damage.

Moreover, an excessive simplification of the rules heavily breaks immersion: you'll never get the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant of a fictional world if the model is overly simplified.

I love it!
Easy to remember so no need to hunt for rules. Very quick to play. Easy to convert from D&D to S&SS.

I recently started a Dragon of Icespire Keep campaign using S&SS. I ran a couple sessions already using some freeform adventures to get the characters to Phandalin. It's gone very smooth so far.

Yes. I recommend the Expanded Edition! 

Another person made the game many years ago. Then that person gave the right to pigames they cleaned up with a better layout and released (For free like the original). Later, they updated and expanded it. If you like the free version go for the expanded. I recommend the Expanded Edition.

SWORDS & SIX-SIDERS EXPANDED EDITION (check the preview)

• https://www.pigames.net/store/product_info.php?cPath=137&products_id=1049
• https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/32/Precis-Intermedia/subcategory/126_29707/Swords--SixSiders

Use S&SS Expanded Ed using any Wee Warriors like "The Dwarven Glory" or "One Page Dungeon Compendium"

• https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/32/Precis-Intermedia/subcategory/126_33884/Wee-Warriors
• https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/305010/One-Page-Dungeon-Compendium-2019-Edition

Agreed. Expanded Edition is the way to go.

Thanks for the dungeon links. I'll check them out.

Quote from: Vestragor on April 24, 2023, 03:48:39 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2023, 10:22:41 PM
What do you guys think? 

Pure shit like every modern "rules light" system that confuses "easy" with "light".
A real rules light game uses the least amount of rules to properly represent the setting: if in your default setting brutal combat with plenty of dismemberment is the norm, your "light rules" must include hit locations and localized damage.

Moreover, an excessive simplification of the rules heavily breaks immersion: you'll never get the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant of a fictional world if the model is overly simplified.

Agreed. These games are often fetishes that some GMs go through. Nobody is going to raise their hand and say they ran a bi-weekly campaign of this for the past year.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 24, 2023, 09:11:53 AM

Quote from: Vestragor on April 24, 2023, 03:48:39 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2023, 10:22:41 PM
What do you guys think? 

Pure shit like every modern "rules light" system that confuses "easy" with "light".
A real rules light game uses the least amount of rules to properly represent the setting: if in your default setting brutal combat with plenty of dismemberment is the norm, your "light rules" must include hit locations and localized damage.

Moreover, an excessive simplification of the rules heavily breaks immersion: you'll never get the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant of a fictional world if the model is overly simplified.

Agreed. These games are often fetishes that some GMs go through. Nobody is going to raise their hand and say they ran a bi-weekly campaign of this for the past year.

I think you guys are missing the point or never played S&SS in the first place. The game is short, I don't remember the max level, the original is lv 6, the Expanded Edition increased it a bit (If you want to use it). You would run a campaign using Basic D&D 1E Holmes? You can enjoy playing BD&D 1E but not for longs sessions.

What do you mean with "Nobody"? The players? Why the players will say what rules they want to use?  Unless the rules are very obvious the players should not give much importance to the rules.

From the description of the game:

"it relies on a single six-sided die (1d6) and single expanding monster stat (plus any special abilities), making gameplay quick and easy. It is great for both new roleplayers and old-schoolers alike who are looking to get more gaming done in less time. "

Games with rules like S&SS can be added to or modified with other rules if the DM wishes. Plus bonus you can use Swords & Six-Siders to play Solo.

As far as I know the expanded edition is the base game and companion combined into one. 

Does the expanded edition have anything more?

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 24, 2023, 12:49:14 PM
As far as I know the expanded edition is the base game and companion combined into one. 

Does the expanded edition have anything more?

Yes, I believe it includes extra creatures and the standard OSR conversion notes, perhaps a few more things, but I don't remember now.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 24, 2023, 12:49:14 PM
As far as I know the expanded edition is the base game and companion combined into one. 

Does the expanded edition have anything more?

Honestly I don't remember the details Take a look at this video (18m):

Just looked at this and have to wonder...if you're going to pare down D&D to something allegedly simple, why even bother with six stats? Why not just two or something, maybe Mind and Body? Also, I am not so sure I particularly care for a single D6 roll for task resolution when 1 is always a failure and 6 is always a success. Why not use a d10 or something to give a greater range? At least 2D6 a la Traveller gives a nice little bell curve; the flat die roll with such a small range of results is kind of unsatisfying.

EDIT: Prince Valiant...coin flip

Quote from: Brad on April 24, 2023, 01:54:44 PM
Just looked at this and have to wonder...if you're going to pare down D&D to something allegedly simple, why even bother with six stats? Why not just two or something, maybe Mind and Body? Also, I am not so sure I particularly care for a single D6 roll for task resolution when 1 is always a failure and 6 is always a success. Why not use a d10 or something to give a greater range? At least 2D6 a la Traveller gives a nice little bell curve; the flat die roll with such a small range of results is kind of unsatisfying.

EDIT: Prince Valiant...coin flip

Actually, there ARE games that do that stuff like having two stats.  Pocket Fantasy characters have their fighting skill (1D6-2 wizards, 1D6-1 rogues & clerics, or 1D6 fighters), and hit points. 

I think the reason people do this stuff is just for the hell of it.  It's fun.  It's also why I'm attracted to these small games.  I want to see how much you can do with so little dice and pages of text. 

Pocket Fantasy is probably my best example of a minimal game that still has all the bits a full game has.  It's only 4 pages, too, but I recommend the extra classes and loot expansions.  That makes it more like 10 pages.  That's still incredibly small if you ask me.  And we played it.  It works fine. 

Swords and Six Siders is much more complete, and has a LOT more in common with D&D.

I will say that some "one page" RPGs are not to my liking. 

The stupendously complex games are equally not for me.  I just can't be bothered.  They're too much, and having a rule to look up every other roll of the dice is infuriating.

I'm more into easy and short games these days.  I'll give them all a look.  Swords and Six Siders sure seems like a great game in the traditional D&D mold.  I like it. 

Quote from: Cathal on April 24, 2023, 10:04:42 AM

Quote from: FingerRod on April 24, 2023, 09:11:53 AM

Quote from: Vestragor on April 24, 2023, 03:48:39 AM

Quote from: weirdguy564 on April 23, 2023, 10:22:41 PM
What do you guys think? 

Pure shit like every modern "rules light" system that confuses "easy" with "light".
A real rules light game uses the least amount of rules to properly represent the setting: if in your default setting brutal combat with plenty of dismemberment is the norm, your "light rules" must include hit locations and localized damage.

Moreover, an excessive simplification of the rules heavily breaks immersion: you'll never get the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant of a fictional world if the model is overly simplified.

Agreed. These games are often fetishes that some GMs go through. Nobody is going to raise their hand and say they ran a bi-weekly campaign of this for the past year.

I think you guys are missing the point or never played S&SS in the first place. The game is short, I don't remember the max level, the original is lv 6, the Expanded Edition increased it a bit (If you want to use it). You would run a campaign using Basic D&D 1E Holmes? You can enjoy playing BD&D 1E but not for longs sessions.

What do you mean with "Nobody"? The players? Why the players will say what rules they want to use?  Unless the rules are very obvious the players should not give much importance to the rules.

From the description of the game:

"it relies on a single six-sided die (1d6) and single expanding monster stat (plus any special abilities), making gameplay quick and easy. It is great for both new roleplayers and old-schoolers alike who are looking to get more gaming done in less time. "

Games with rules like S&SS can be added to or modified with other rules if the DM wishes. Plus bonus you can use Swords & Six-Siders to play Solo.

So that is a no then.

Players do not run games. I do not know what that rant was about other than your curious claim that players don't think rules are important.

It appears English is a second language, so it is possible we are talking past one another here. I believe mechanics must be compelling for long-term play. As previously mentioned, 1 in 3 rolls are auto-something'd. That is about as fun as playing the card game War. Something you can also do solo.

Quote from: Vestragor on April 24, 2023, 03:48:39 AM
Pure shit like every modern "rules light" system that confuses "easy" with "light".
A real rules light game uses the least amount of rules to properly represent the setting: if in your default setting brutal combat with plenty of dismemberment is the norm, your "light rules" must include hit locations and localized damage.

Moreover, an excessive simplification of the rules heavily breaks immersion: you'll never get the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant of a fictional world if the model is overly simplified.

How many rules for hit location and damage?  What if the rule is "The player can say they target a specific limb.  If they roll a 6 on a d6 attack roll and roll maximum damage for their weapon the limb they targeted is cut off."  Is that enough?

As for the immersion, not every game is going for that.  Some are just going for beer & pretzels fun.  This goes for any game, not just ones with lite systems.  I don't think I ever played a game of Paranoia or Toon and heard a player complain about deep immersion and not getting the feeling of controlling a "real" inhabitant.

Quote from: FingerRod on April 25, 2023, 06:59:38 AM
I believe mechanics must be compelling for long-term play.

Why can't a game just offer a fun evening or two of dungeon delving and monster slaying?  Why does an RPG have to support long-term play?  How long is long-term?  Does it have to support, say, weekly play for 3 months? 6? A year? More?