Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

Obvious Neo-Puritan is obvious.

Blankman's comparison is right on the money.

Christian Rock doesn't make Christianity better, it makes Rock & Roll worse.

Sword Dream doesn't make Identity Politics better, it makes RPG's worse.

And there are some good Christian movies but they are rare.

Controversies aside, The Passion Of The Christ is a well-made movie because despite all of his personal flaws, Mel Gibson is a damn fine filmmaker and he is an artist.

He wanted to make a movie that was not only sending a Christian message but was also a great movie in and of itself.

I'm a pagan and I love The Passion Of The Christ for its merits as a film and a work of art.

Meanwhile, I know devout Christians who cringe at bullshit like God's Not Dead.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

You have weird sensitive spots. He could have just as easily chosen any other example where ideological/religious messaging was ham-handedly the primary purpose of a work. The point was not about religion, but somehow you are not seeing that & got triggered? His point was that he found the first 4 points ideological in nature, about an ideological notion that is separate from the creation of good games. In the same way that a ham-fisted Soviet parable may be less about writing a good story than about singing the praises of Soviet style Communism, or 60 year old white guys rapping about Jesus in the late '80s were probably more about getting kids interested in Jesus by "talking to them in their language" than by their honest love of hip-hop. In the same way a Wendy's music video about how to serve cold drinks is more about training new employees than trying to make a real personal artistic contribution to the world.  But... sometimes even people working with those motives will stumble upon greatness...

[video=youtube;PJ-JBFXh2IU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ-JBFXh2IU[/youtube]

Quote from: Blankman;1091315I'm pretty sure point 7, "experimentation in game design & worldbuilding" has something to do with game design you know. Point 8 seems to have stuff about gaming and game design in there too, "generative worlds, kitbashing, non-violent play options" are all things you can put in a game (I'd say non-violent play options are kind of intrinsically in rpgs, otherwise they would be too restricted to be rpgs, but it is still an element of game design). Point 6 is about DIY, taking alternative approaches to publishing and believing anyone can make great games. That is at least connected to game publishing. Point 5, "equitable pay for professional creators" is definitely about game publishing, something fairly heavily related to game design. The last point, point 9, is just about "this isn't a company, you too can do the thing", same as with talking about OSR or whatever. So ignoring that, as it isn't really meant to say anything other than "this is not a company logo", half of the points are about game design or game publishing. So it is pure hyperbole to say nothing on that list has anything to do with gaming or game design.

The problem is that the first four points aren't actually related to that, and since they are first they take on more importance and color the rest of the document. The ideas about game design are there, just clearly subordinate to the ideology. It's like Christian movies. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a film that has a Christian message, if that's your bag. The problem, and the reason why those films almost always suck, is when you decide that sending a good message has priority over making a good film. Make a good film first, worry about the message later. Similarly, make a good game first, worry about inclusiveness etc later. You want to put in art that features people of wildly different ethnicities? Cool, just make sure that is is good art that supports your game (or adventure, setting, source book or what have you) first.

I get what you're saying. And I think it's interesting to compare SJW-ism to Christian fundamentalism.

Quote from: NeonAce;1091358Wendy's music video ...

That is surreal. On several levels.

Quote from: Blood Axe;1091354The inclusion of religion in your post had nothing to do with rpg but hey whatever. Maybe the Atheist coming out?
Inclusiveness for its own sake is ridiculous if it doesn't fit the game. But keep on SJW.

The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

Quote from: tenbones;1091405The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

The same level of brainwashing and immunity to reasonable argument seems to be involved.

Quote from: tenbones;1091405The ideology of the SJW's is very much a religion.

Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Gospel

They just dropped Jesus entirely but kept the same leftist form of Protestantism.

I don't expect much will come from "sworddream."  People who don't have a chip on their shoulder already have loads of RPGs to enjoy.  It doesn't actually do anything for anyone who will actually buy or play games.

Quote from: SavageSchemer;1091319The fact that they've got nine points is another sign that it's destined for failure. Anyone who's ever presented to a board of directors knows you keep your bullet points to five or fewer. Your message must be concise, easily stated and memorable. Statistically, more than five points is where you loose your audience. That these guys lead with four points that have literally nothing to do with gaming tells us what they're all about (hint: not gaming).

LOL. So true. I read an article about why the 10 Commandments didn't work and it was half joking, but it pointed out how people need ideas that fit on the fingers of one hand.

Ironically, the actual OSR has it down.

1) Rulings, not rules.
2) DIY ethic
3) D&D uber alles

Quote from: NeonAce;1091358But... sometimes even people working with those motives will stumble upon greatness...

Thank you for posting that! I knew I had D4 extra SAN I didn't need!

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

Too true. Humans (for whatever reason) need religion, and they will lay the trappings of religion over anything, regardless if a deity is involved.

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

Yep. In the absence of God... they are compelled to create one. They went old-school too - vengeful, ignorant, spiteful, dogmatic. We need to stat this deity up!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1091445Too true. Humans (for whatever reason) need religion, and they will lay the trappings of religion over anything, regardless if a deity is involved.

Something I have had many an argument with atheists over. The anti-theist kind, the ones that think they can abolish religion and are working towards it. It doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, you have to be able to see religion fills something in the human psyche/soul. And when that hole it's not filled by religion very few are able to resist turning to secular religions/cults and some of those give us the example of people needing God to act morally.

Just look at all the SJWs, deep into a cult and one more immoral than the last.

Which might be a good plot seed for someone better at writing adventures than me. I might use it on a table tho.

Quote from: tenbones;1091471Yep. In the absence of God... they are compelled to create one. They went old-school too - vengeful, ignorant, spiteful, dogmatic. We need to stat this deity up!

   I think Troll Lord Games just published a whole book of them.

Quote from: Armchair Gamer;1091474I think Troll Lord Games just published a whole book of them.

HAH! touche!

Quote from: Blankman;1091351Yes Christian movies. Stuff like God's Not Dead, things that are primarily made to preach, rather than be good films. A film can be a good depiction of Christian values or a story from the Bible without being that type of Christian film. Just like a game can have a lot of art of different kinds of people and be written by people from different demographics without making that more important than the actual game.

I'm an atheist, and I thought The Ten Commandments was the bees' knees.

Quote from: Shasarak;1091412Ever since Nietzsche killed God people have been looking for a replacement.

"God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it?"