Say you want to run a swashbuckling campaign. Be it a historically-accurate game set in 17th-century Paris, a happy-go-lucky game of pirates out for Spanish gold, or even a Solomon Kane-ish chronicle with franky fantastic and/or horrific elements.
What is it that you want the system to do?
And what systems do you feel have the right tools to pull it off?
Of current games, All For One: Regime Diabolique (using Ubiquity) looks good, but I'm really digging Honor + Intrigue, which uses the system from Barbarians of Lemuria.
There's an only Flashing Blades supplement I might get in pdf, as it supposedly has details on both the Musketeers and Cardinals Guard, which would be very useful for running games set in Paris. Paris Gothique for All for One would be another must have too, as it details Paris at the time
i'm curious about this, as well. i have flashing blades + high seas (the 17th century Caribbean supplement) but haven't read them all the way through yet.
offhand, could something like MRQ pirates + combat maneuvers do it well? i have the former but have only heard of the latter thanks to folks raving about MRQ2.
I want something that has fast and easy dueling--that makes play and choices fun, without bogging down the resolution.
I want to able to have the heroes swing across a room on a curtain and that be the BEST possible choice from time to time.
I want "face" to be involved, dueling as well as bravery/cowardice, facing down and making opponents step away by sheer courage and conviction.
Romance and the possibility of females being able to step into a pure fighting role. Like a Joan of Arc without the religious connection.:)
Quote from: Marleycat;555531Romance and the possibility of females being able to step into a pure fighting role. Like a Joan of Arc without the religious connection.:)
I assumed that was given....
Quote from: Silverlion;555532I assumed that was given....
Usually if you go female in a swashbuckling game that's historically accurate your best bet is to go the Templar or maybe Pirate route. The first has proof the second not so much. Besides I want to be a musketeer.:)
And romance is a given. I just want to try the "chaser" role and still be in setting and character without straining SoD.
Swashbuckling adventure style games are something I've always been interested in so I've picked up and run a bunch over time. I've copies of Pirates & Plunder, Flashing Blades, Privateers and Gentlemen and Seventh Seas. The one I've enjoyed running the most though is Lace and Steel:
Combat: Lace and Steel's combat, specifically the hand to hand combat, feels like a fencing match. It's run through a mini-game using cards that come with the game. Players and their opponents play from a hand of tactics dealt to them The combatants stats and skills determine both how many of these cards they are dealt and exactly how much mileage they can get out of it. There's a real feel that players are exchanging strikes and parries, locking blades and trading repartee jabs over locked hilts. It really is a lot of fun.
Interactions: In addition to skills and stats, which help control how players interact socially, there are also emotional traits called Ties, Antipathies and Self Image. Player develop ties and antipathies during play. If you have a tie to you best friend then you will get a slight skill bump when performing skills that involve him. If you have an antipathy to something then you will get a slight skill loss when dealing with the focus of your antipathy. Self Image represents how at ease you are with yourself at that moment. If you self image drops into negatives it can effect your healing rate and your chances to increase skill after an adventure. These emotional stats really come into their own when players start using social skills. A truly vicious exchange of repartee at court can have really meaning consequences for a player. Aggressive social interaction is actually modeled much like the fencing system.
Magic: Lace and Steel has a magic system and is set in a fantasy world. Magicians learn magical skills (Divination, Necromancy, Alchemy) and then within the category learn individual spells that they can use. The over all effect is that most magicians choose a few skills and work to develop those as high as they can.
Nonhumans and Beasts: The playable non-human races are Centaurs, Harpies, Satyrs and Pixies. Optionally a player could talk the GM into allowing an Ogre or Troll character (there are rules for generating them). When I ran it the nonhumans were very much in the background. I wanted to run a very human-centric version of the game. The Beastiary is very, very brief. In an editor's note the writer says he wanted the primary villains of the game to humans instead of a 'monster of the week.' That said it would be quite easy to make up any monsters you wanted. I certainly did.
Sorry, I went on and, but I wanted to give some specific answers as to why I really like this game.
Sounds fun, where do you get it?
Bleah, used to be downloadable from Drivethru, but I don't see it anymore. Guess it's faded into the ether. You might find a copy on ebay.
Quote from: IceBlinkLuck;555556Bleah, used to be downloadable from Drivethru, but I don't see it anymore. Guess it's faded into the ether. You might find a copy on ebay.
Too bad because it sounds 7th Sea like.:)
Swashbuckling Combat: Which needs a heavy focus upon actively defending yourself and manoeuvring into an advantageous position. It also needs to be pretty pacey, if your spending half an hour looking stuff up when you yank a rug from under someone, it dosen't feel swashbucklery.
High Stakes: In the Three Musketeers, when someone gets shot, they either die or spend months recovering from getting shot. Your not playing a bunch of Conans here, you are very much mortal and to survive through Wits and Skill rather than raw power and healing magics.
Looking at what is out there and I have experience of:
Seventh Sea has a lot of nice stuff, but the maths is poor and character generation is a bad joke.
Lace and Steel has some ok stuff, but I don't really like cards and the background is a bit to focused on weird monster shagging for my tastes.
Savage Worlds, using the Solomon Kane or Pirates of the Spanish Main may well work, although the maths is pretty broken if that sort of thing bothers you.
All For One looks really cool, if you want to play in a demon infested Paris. I haven't really played it though, so there may be some jarring stuff under the hood.
I have never played Flashing Blades, and I don't even own Honor + Intrigue.
Quote from: jadrax;555576Savage Worlds, using the Solomon Kane or Pirates of the Spanish Main may well work, although the maths is pretty broken if that sort of thing bothers you.
Apparently rerolling using [dice-1],instead of just adding the dice, fixes the issue most people complain about with regard to the math - at least, that's what I've heard. It'd probably be my pick, though I know The Butcher has a sort of love/hate/meh thing with SW so to try and pick some other things...I'm wondering if something like MasterBook might be good for swashbuckling, with its Drama Deck and such like, though the rules are a bit involved?
Or D6 System (if it worked for Star Wars, it has to be swashbuckly...).
Or Marvel Super Heroes (although you'd need to adapt it to a completely different genre for this, so I may be insane; I haven't played it except as a supers game but it seems like a simple game where there's alot of fancy combat manuevers and such).
I have been itching to run the SW pirates of the spanish main.
I enjoyed 7th Sea, the few times I played it.
I want very low lethality, a quick and easy improvised stunting system, and mook rules. That's about it, really.
Lace and Steel was fun, sadly my copy is long gone.
PDQ Sharp (http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/PDQ.pdf) seems like it would do an excellent job of swashbuckling. Unfortunately I haven't ever been able to give it a test drive.
Quote from: Ronin;555761PDQ Sharp (http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/PDQ.pdf) seems like it would do an excellent job of swashbuckling. Unfortunately I haven't ever been able to give it a test drive.
Ran a very short game using the Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies setting, and the game itself went ok. It certainly felt swashbucklery.
Personally, I think I would want more of a defined system than this for a long term campaign, but people's tastes vary.
Quote from: Marleycat;555535Usually if you go female in a swashbuckling game that's historically accurate your best bet is to go the Templar or maybe Pirate route. The first has proof the second not so much. Besides I want to be a musketeer.:)
There (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Shih) is precedent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O%27Malley). :D
Quote from: The Butcher;555401Say you want to run a swashbuckling campaign.
Done! (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/le-ballet-de-l-acier) :)
Quote from: The Butcher;555401What is it that you want the system to do?
I want swordplay rules that put the players in the heads of their characters, to capture a little of the 'chess at ninety miles per hour' feel of fencing, where they can choose between thrusting a sword in the other guy's throat, riposting his slash, and kicking the him in the junk.
I want a damage rules which being incapacitated is more likely than being killed, but which makes one-thrust-one-kill a possibility every time swords are drawn.
I want a skill rules which make swinging from a chandelier or pulling the rug out from someone's feet possible without turning them into an end in themselves.
I want a game in which I can play Aramis in
The Three Musketeers (musketeer),
Twenty Years Later (prelate), and
The Vicomte de Bragelonne (Spanish amabassador) and have his career path supported by the rules.
Quote from: The Butcher;555401And what systems do you feel have the right tools to pull it off?
Flashing Blades hits all my sweet spots.
Quote from: The Traveller;555773There (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ching_Shih) is precedent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grace_O%27Malley). :D
I had heard Ching Shih mentioned but I completely forgotten about her. Maybe it's because she was Chinese and I didn't think it was relevant to the thread. Stupid me. Never heard of Grace O'Malley but I will definitely remember both for any future conversations.:)
But it does kind of prove my assertion that the best way to go for a female is being a pirate, Joan of Arc, or Yentl* type swashbuckler.:)
*Masquarade as a man.
Quote from: Marleycat;555535Besides I want to be a musketeer.:)
Don't worry. Barbie has you covered. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmksws0y1ik)
Quote from: The Butcher;555401What is it that you want the system to do?
The system needs to allow players to create characters that are among the best there is -- characters so good that they can be outnumbered, try dangerous fancy tricks, and jump into danger and have a good chance of success. Swashbucklers should be like James Bond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wy-c8aAntWA).
Quote from: Marleycat;555787I had heard Ching Shih mentioned but I completely forgotten about her. Maybe it's because she was Chinese and I didn't think it was relevant to the thread. Stupid me. Never heard of Grace O'Malley but I will definitely remember both for any future conversations.:)
But it does kind of prove my assertion that the best way to go for a female is being a pirate, Joan of Arc, or Yentl* type swashbuckler.:)
*Masquarade as a man.
You know, just on a whim I did a bit of checking up and women were not only excellent pirates (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_piracy) but had a tendency to pass away peacefully in their sleep at age seventy, rather than the usual short drop and sudden stop retirement plan. "Back from the Dead Red" is my new favourite pirate, just for the name. :D Apparently they coined the term fishnet stockings too. No luck with the female Musketeers though.
Quote from: John Morrow;555838Don't worry. Barbie has you covered. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmksws0y1ik)
I only watched the first 10 seconds; I died a little inside.
Thank you all for replying!
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;555585The Butcher has a sort of love/hate/meh thing with SW
I couldn't have said it better myself.
I used to be a big enthusiast. My burnout has nothing to do with the math; I actually feel the wonky math contributes to emulating a certain sort of fiction -- when incompetent characters succeed, they're more likely to Ace, which doesn't amount to much mathematically but makes everyone go "dude, did your caveman just hotwire a M1 Abrams?" It does a crappy job of emulating most pulp fiction, despite being originally billed as a pulp RPG; it does a great job of emulating the some of the sillier Hollywood action movie offerings, and even old Saturday morning cartoons.
It was during a Castles & Crusades session, when my fighter was down to 1hp and I was all like Théoden in RotK (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdnqZcmWk8U&t=2m3s) until I got to crit and finish the last of several opponents (I think it was a Gloranthan broo, of all things, converted to C&C), that I had my own personal epiphany of grittiness. I had forgotten how much
fun it was to actually put your ass on the line.
Suddenly the real badass wasn't the SW character who took out Extras by the dozen, but the humble 4th-level human fighter locked in a deadly struggle with a slobbering horror. I still ran SW for over a year after that but it just didn't seem so exciting anymore; like riding a bike with training wheels on.
I still think it's a killer design if you want hypercompetent PCs mowing down armies of mooks (as in the aforementioned silly action movies and Saturday morning cartoons), but nowadays I'd rather serve up tougher and bloodier fare at my game table. Valor loses its edge if injury and death are deprived of their sting.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;555585so to try and pick some other things...I'm wondering if something like MasterBook might be good for swashbuckling, with its Drama Deck and such like, though the rules are a bit involved?
Not really familiar with MasterBook.
Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;555585Or D6 System (if it worked for Star Wars, it has to be swashbuckly...).
Or Marvel Super Heroes (although you'd need to adapt it to a completely different genre for this, so I may be insane; I haven't played it except as a supers game but it seems like a simple game where there's alot of fancy combat manuevers and such).
Not bad ideas, but mostly lacking in tactical complexity; in a swashbuckling game I'd expect duels to be involved affairs. Not that our lightsaber duels in Star Wars D6 were boring (they weren't), but I think I'd prefer something more specialized here, maybe with some extra bells and whistles.
I've even considered hacking the Palladium combat system. I like the nothing-is-assumed, strike-parry-dodge thing -- though why would anyone parry when they can dodge, barring "automatic parry" (i.e. the ability to parry without spending a melee action/attack) is beyond me. Also one might expand the "pull punch" bonus beyond punches, for a subdual-type non-lethal combat aimed at incapacitation (as opposed to the exceptional duel to the death).
Quote from: Black Vulmea;555778Done! (http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/le-ballet-de-l-acier) :)
I was wondering when you were going to show up. This thread just screams "Black Vulmea bait". :D
Quote from: Black Vulmea;555778I want swordplay rules that put the players in the heads of their characters, to capture a little of the 'chess at ninety miles per hour' feel of fencing, where they can choose between thrusting a sword in the other guy's throat, riposting his slash, and kicking the him in the junk.
I want a damage rules which being incapacitated is more likely than being killed, but which makes one-thrust-one-kill a possibility every time swords are drawn.
I want a skill rules which make swinging from a chandelier or pulling the rug out from someone's feet possible without turning them into an end in themselves.
I want a game in which I can play Aramis in The Three Musketeers (musketeer), Twenty Years Later (prelate), and The Vicomte de Bragelonne (Spanish amabassador) and have his career path supported by the rules.
Flashing Blades hits all my sweet spots.
Wow, that's quite the sales pitch. (I am inevitably reminded of Cap'n Buzz trying to persuade Dr. Pradesh to buy company stock :D).
I will ask an obscene question. How hard would it be to graft fantastic, supernatural stuff (specifically of the horrific sort) onto Flashing Blades?
Quote from: The Butcher;556177I still think it's a killer design if you want hypercompetent PCs mowing down armies of mooks (as in the aforementioned silly action movies and Saturday morning cartoons), but nowadays I'd rather serve up tougher and bloodier fare at my game table. Valor loses its edge if injury and death are deprived of their sting.
We're had this discussion before so I won't go over it too much.
Since then, I will mention that last Saturday as it happens we played Realms of Cthulhu with the "no soaking" genre rule, and my PC sadly became dogfood for a Hound of Tindalos :( Ah well. This was a one-shot game (that ended up going for three short sessions), and not a combat character (poverty stricken actor with d4 in fighting and d10+4 Persuasion ). But I digress.
Fair enough on the other games. Brettmb would be a good person to ask on perspectives on MasterBook since he owns it now, btw. It looks a bit cumbersome to me (depending on preferences), but it has the same Drama Deck as TORG which enables PCs to involve themselves in various subplots, and is also used to have preferred moves in combat that change from round to round.
Quote from: The Butcher;556180I was wondering when you were going to show up. This thread just screams "Black Vulmea bait". :D
Okay, you've had your fun, now get the damn hook out of my cheek already.
Quote from: The Butcher;556180How hard would it be to graft fantastic, supernatural stuff (specifically of the horrific sort) onto Flashing Blades?
Characters in
FB have six attributes which track pretty closely to
D&D, so there's a pretty ready means of comparison with like systems.
I would think something skill-based might work.
Not that I would ever consider such an outrageous sin against God and nature, of course.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;556252Okay, you've had your fun, now get the damn hook out of my cheek already.
Well, if that didn't work, I had Snowbird Games'
Caribbean! (http://snowbirdgames.com/en/2012/07/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82-%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BD%D1%91%D0%BC-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%BE%D0%BC-2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B1%D1%8B/) on standby.
(I know, the address is in Russian. It's safe, trust me.)
Quote from: StormBringer;556280Well, if that didn't work, I had Snowbird Games' Caribbean! (http://snowbirdgames.com/en/2012/07/%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D0%B9-%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82-%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BD%D1%91%D0%BC-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%BE%D0%BC-2-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B1%D1%8B/) on standby.
While the subject matter is appealing, of course, I'm not much of a computer gamer.
Even more intriguing, however, is
Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword. That's one of my favorite novels.
Quote from: John Morrow;555838Don't worry. Barbie has you covered. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmksws0y1ik)
I want to cry.
Okay, I'm curious whether anyone has tried Regime Diabolique. Every time I stop by one of the local FLGS, I see it there and am tempted.
that barbie thing reminds me of sailor moon :rotfl:
Quote from: beeber;559426that barbie thing reminds me of sailor moon :rotfl:
My youngest daughter caught a glimpse of it over my shoulder and said "Oh, crappity crap crap crap."
Yeah, I think she's over the Barbie stage.
Quote from: Gib;555948I only watched the first 10 seconds; I died a little inside.
You really must watch the whole thing. Words cannot express how hilariously, delightfully awful it is.
Rhythmic gymnastics as a fighting style (watch out for the ribbons). A training montage set to EMF's "Unbelievable". With a Yoda clone.
Seriously, get friends and booze. It's an evening well spent.
Quote from: daniel_ream;559437Seriously, get friends and booze. It's an evening well spent.
Or have some young daughters who beg you to buy them Barbie videos. Yes, indeed, I actually have that DVD. Some of them aren't that bad (I watch most of them with them), though I've never sat through much of that particular one and my daughters haven't asked to rewatch that one, which is telling.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;559430Yeah, I think she's over the Barbie stage.
How old is she? I'd like to know how many more years of that I'm going to have to endure.
Quote from: John Morrow;559475How old is she? I'd like to know how many more years of that I'm going to have to endure.
She just turned nine, but she also enjoys watching the LOTR trilogy and had a blast watching The Avengers. She got her geek going last year learning to play MtG, Star Wars d20, and Pathfinder with her older siblings. As with kids in general, YMMV.
Quote from: Black Vulmea;556340While the subject matter is appealing, of course, I'm not much of a computer gamer.
Even more intriguing, however, is Mount & Blade: With Fire & Sword. That's one of my favorite novels.
I've read (somewhere) that the Fire & Sword version isn't as good as Warband, which was the second version. Don't remember the reasoning.
Hint: hereabouts, I've seen Warband for sale at Half Price Books, for less than the download price.
While I'm here, I won't ply you with a dozen games that I've sort-of-read but never played...well, I will agree that a dueling system is a nice feature, and give Swashbuckler a mention in this regard. But another feature that seems particularly suitable to this genre, and which is found in a few games, is some sort of "thematic scenario/random event generation" system. IIRC Flashing Blades has something like this, which lets you progress your character outside of realtime gameplay. Crimson Cutlass has a great set of tables for this, but it's very hard to find.
Quote from: jadrax;555576Lace and Steel has some ok stuff, but I don't really like cards and the background is a bit to focused on weird monster shagging for my tastes.
The thread pretty much covers anything I would have wrote anyway, but dude. A throwaway line about satyrs not always being too picky is excessive focus on weird monster shagging?
Quote from: flyerfan1991;559479She just turned nine, but she also enjoys watching the LOTR trilogy and had a blast watching The Avengers. She got her geek going last year learning to play MtG, Star Wars d20, and Pathfinder with her older siblings. As with kids in general, YMMV.
I've been showing them more serious (and better) stuff, including Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra, The Last Unicorn, The Black Cauldron, The Incredibles, and various Miyazaki movies (including Nausicaa and [Laputa] Castle in the Sky, both of which they were fine with). I'm thinking about trying the Rankin Bass animated The Hobbit next.
Quote from: John Morrow;559487I've been showing them more serious (and better) stuff, including Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra, The Last Unicorn, The Black Cauldron, The Incredibles, and various Miyazaki movies (including Nausicaa and [Laputa] Castle in the Sky, both of which they were fine with). I'm thinking about trying the Rankin Bass animated The Hobbit next.
Never underestimate the power of The Princess Bride too.
Quote from: flyerfan1991;559488Never underestimate the power of The Princess Bride too.
I actually tried that, and it didn't interest them. They're pretty opinionated little girls and good about telling me what they like, don't like, and what scares them (which is how they wound up watching Nausicaa, which I was concerned might frighten them). Maybe it's time to ask again if they have any interest in that.
Spellbound Kingdoms
Honor & Intrigue
PDQ#
Cineflex
Flashing Blades