A friend of mine is looking to start a swashbucking RPG campaign, and I am doing my best to convince him to not use 7th Sea. What he really likes about 7th Sea is the wide variety of maneuvers for the different schools of swashbuckling. Specifically, he likes that in a group of a half dozen players, each playing a swordsman, there will often be different actions being taken in a round, and these different actions are each supported by their own game mechanics. He likes that these different mechanics make each of the schools of swordsmanship feel different in play.
I don't like 7th Sea's roll and keep system (I feel it far too strongly emphasizes stats over skills), I'm not real fond of its damage system (flesh wounds vs dramatic injuries), and I'm not fond of its action economy (a PC group's worth of panache ranks of attacks means enemies likewise have to be groups. A single large enemy often far too quickly withers under the number of attacks a PC group can bring to bear).
With his preferences and my issues in mind, can any of you suggest a game that might suit our swashbuckling interests?
"All for One: Regime Diabolique" (http://www.tripleacegames.com/brands/all-for-one-regime-diabolique/)
I haven't tried it yet but it looks interesting. It comes in an "Ubiquity" engine version and a "Savage Worlds" engine version.
Yaquinto's Swashbuckler, if you can find a copy. Ditto Crimson Cutlass. You might also have a look at GURPS Swashbuckler.
Note Crimson Cutlass is available as a .pdf from Amazon for $5.
Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;824879With his preferences and my issues in mind, can any of you suggest a game that might suit our swashbuckling interests?
I'm using Honor+Intrigue for swashbuckling action.
H+I has a very nice dueling system. It is fairly simple, very flexible, and appropriately flavorful for the genre. The moves or maneuvers used vary by both character and circumstance and the dueling styles lead characters to naturally specialize in different moves. I've never seen the same moves repeatedly used by a group of different characters.
- It allows all characters to do all the regular moves so no one is gimped.
- Characters can master a move which increases their chance to succeed, increases the effect when they succeed, or gives them some other bonus like a free action.
- Different Qualities (stats) are used for the chance for success for different moves so characters who are Mighty, Daring, Savvy, or have Flair may choose different moves from each other based on which stats they are best at or one what they think their opponent is good at.
- Different maneuvers use different combat abilities, so a character good at Brawling will naturally choose different maneuvers, even in a sword fight, than will a character who is better at Melee.
- There are different dueling styles, e.g. Italian, French, Spanish, Old Style, Eastern or Cavalry style, etc. Knowledge of a dueling style gives a minor advantage when you fight in that style.
- Characters can master a style which allows them to learn a final secret for that style giving them a unique style advantage.
Here's how rolls work in H+I. Roll 2d6 add appropriate Quality (varies by move), add appropriate combat ability (varies by move), subtract opponents defending attribute (varies by move and may be a Quality or Combat Ability or the sum of a Quality and a Combat Ability).
Two examples will clarify.
- A normal attack is called Bladework. The attacker rolls 2d6+Daring+Melee and subtracts the target's Defense trying to roll 9+. From this we can see that characters who are Daring and skilled at Melee combat will have a good chance to stab or slash people. Characters who have a good Defense will be harder to hit.
- A Disarm is an attack that...well disarms the opponent. Typically you have to first Bind the opponent's weapon before you can disarm. So the attacker tries Bind rolling 2d6+Might+Melee and subtracting the opponent's Might (9+succeeds). If that succeeds the attacker can try to Disarm. Roll 2d6+Might+Melee subtracting the targets Might and Melee.
Right away we can see that two characters one who has a high Daring and an average Might and the other who has a high Might and an average Daring are going to be well served by choosing different moves. The Daring character should avoid Bind and Disarm . Otherwise, unless his Melee is a lot higher he will likely fail. On the other hand, the character with the high Might is well served to try to Disarm.
Now for the negative. Lifeblood (i.e. hit points) in H+I are fixed as are (with certain exceptions) the number of attacks. What this means is that 4 Heroes ganging up on a single Villain are going to defeat the Villain unless there is a huge discrepancy in Qualities and Combat abilities between the PCs and the Villain. While this can be the case, H+I characters start out as very competent. All starting characters are at least OK in combat and some are very competent from day 1. Thus there usually aren't huge discrepancies between human Heroes and Villains. Of course there is nothing stopping the GM from creating an extremely deadly Villain, but that is a bit counter to the swashbuckling motif of duels and one on one combat.
Of course this may well be different if the opponent is not human and that goes double for some of the supernatural creatures.
But in general, a climactic battle will probably have some heroes fighting multiple Pawns (guards and what not), some heroes fighting one or more lieutenants, and one or maybe two heroes fighting the Villain (assuming the Villain is even actually combat capable).
Here's a thread (http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=31634)with some Q&As about H+I.
Quote from: Gwarh;824941"All for One: Regime Diabolique" (http://www.tripleacegames.com/brands/all-for-one-regime-diabolique/)
I haven't tried it yet but it looks interesting. It comes in an "Ubiquity" engine version and a "Savage Worlds" engine version.
Cool. I hadn't seen that Regime Diabolique was out in English. And it appears to be on sale. I'll have to check that out.
Chaosium has Blood Tide (http://www.chaosium.com/blood-tide/) for BRP... a swashbuckling pirate setting with magic and horror elements. It has rules for Stunts, voodou, ship battles and such. It's a sourcebook though, so core BRP or the BRP quickstart would be an additional requirement.
Flashing Blades is still available at '80s prices from FGU's web site in print and pdf too. Also a bunch of cool adventure modules and an expansion for pirates and privateers called High Seas. Still the best of its kind as far as I have seen. Easy to learn, fast to play, cool maneuvers for sword fights.
RuneQuest 6 has a ton of maneuvers you could isolate to certain styles, or if you find the unofficial RQ6 Star Wars hack, there are examples of how to create Jedi Styles using special spot rules to grant differences in the rules.
A pity about 7th Sea's system. Its setting hit a lot of the right notes for me. Tried it twice, the second time with a massive rules overhaul. Just didn't gel.
Quote from: Matt;824979Flashing Blades is still available at '80s prices from FGU's web site in print and pdf too. Also a bunch of cool adventure modules and an expansion for pirates and privateers called High Seas. Still the best of its kind as far as I have seen. Easy to learn, fast to play, cool maneuvers for sword fights.
Matts already nailed this in my opinion.
I would probably go Honor + Intrigue or Savage Worlds (using Pirates of the Caribbean, or Regime Diabolique, or both).
Quote from: Simlasa;824964Chaosium has Blood Tide (http://www.chaosium.com/blood-tide/) for BRP... a swashbuckling pirate setting with magic and horror elements. It has rules for Stunts, voodou, ship battles and such. It's a sourcebook though, so core BRP or the BRP quickstart would be an additional requirement.
I picked up this and Mythic Iceland last week...both look like great books and I am looking forward to trying them out.
Flashing Blades for me
Thanks, everybody, for the great recommendations. I'll certainly be checking out Crimson Cutlass, Flashing Blades, Honor and Intrigue, and Regime Diabolique.
As it turns out, I own Blood Tide, and our gaming group has a experience with long campaigns in BRP, so I can probably pitch that, as well.
And, because this might just be the best place to ask, is there a best place to look for an old out of print game like Yaquinto's swashbuckler, or is the good answer "get thee to google"
I'd go with Flashing Blades or BRP/RQ.
Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;825135Thanks, everybody, for the great recommendations. I'll certainly be checking out Crimson Cutlass, Flashing Blades, Honor and Intrigue, and Regime Diabolique.
As it turns out, I own Blood Tide, and our gaming group has a experience with long campaigns in BRP, so I can probably pitch that, as well.
And, because this might just be the best place to ask, is there a best place to look for an old out of print game like Yaquinto's swashbuckler, or is the good answer "get thee to google"
Wayne's Books and Noble Knight Games tend to have out of print stuff but not usually at low prices. eBay is hit it miss. Sometimes a bargain can be found on the Amazon Marketplace.
I'll throw our Pirates & Dragons game into the hat - the mechanics will be familiar to D100 players, but tweaked for swashbuckling and piratey antics. Beasties and NPCs (including the creatures in the bestiary book, Curious Creatures of the Dragon Isles) are also statted with retro d20 stats as well:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/128665/Pirates--Dragons-Core-Rulebook
Or if you fancy something even lighter, there is a OneDice version:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/134525/OneDice-Pirates--Dragons
Quote from: doomedpc;825177I'll throw our Pirates & Dragons game into the hat - the mechanics will be familiar to D100 players, but tweaked for swashbuckling and piratey antics. Beasties and NPCs (including the creatures in the bestiary book, Curious Creatures of the Dragon Isles) are also statted with retro d20 stats as well:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/128665/Pirates--Dragons-Core-Rulebook
Or if you fancy something even lighter, there is a OneDice version:
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/134525/OneDice-Pirates--Dragons
I'm a big fan of targeted self promotion. You can consider Pirates & Dragons added to the list of games I'm going to be ordering this weekend as well. Cheers!
Alatriste.
There are novels and a movie, by the way.
Quote from: ArtemisAlpha;825201I'm a big fan of targeted self promotion. You can consider Pirates & Dragons added to the list of games I'm going to be ordering this weekend as well. Cheers!
*cackle* Thanks! :)
Legend Pirates is very good as a swashbuckling supplement, which can be used with Blood Tide and RQ6.
In fact Legend/RQ6 is perfect for swashbuckling, especially with the options available for combat.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;824986A pity about 7th Sea's system. Its setting hit a lot of the right notes for me. Tried it twice, the second time with a massive rules overhaul. Just didn't gel.
I love the setting myself, it is one of my favorites games. WHy not just match it to a system you enjoy.
Quote from: JongWK;825202Alatriste.
There are novels and a movie, by the way.
Haven't tried it yet but I'm looking forward to.
It does require proficiency in Spanish and access to a store that carries it, which may be tricky for Anglosphere gamers.
Quote from: The Butcher;825319Haven't tried it yet but I'm looking forward to.
It does require proficiency in Spanish and access to a store that carries it, which may be tricky for Anglosphere gamers.
You didn't get the memo that you're supposed to be translating this as well as Aquelarre?
I wonder if the owners of those systems would be interested in doing a Kickstarter campaign for English Translations.
Quote from: CRKrueger;825333You didn't get the memo that you're supposed to be translating this as well as Aquelarre?
I wonder if the owners of those systems would be interested in doing a Kickstarter campaign for English Translations.
I'd pay for an English language Alatriste just for the setting background and elements.
I've read all the novels so far translated and watched the movie. Both are excellent.
However, more than almost any other movie version of books, you should read the novels first. The movie is great for character, costume, setting, and combat but it is kind of incoherent since it skips from one cool thing to another across 7 novels plus the unpublished ending of the stories. I had to do a lot of explaining to the people I watched it with so that they could follow the jumps in the story.
Swashbuckler by Jim Dietz is a fun game (if you can find a copy!)
Its primary feature is the dueling system, which offers another approach to match-and-show, streamlining it into a very modern cinematic dice method. Basically, you pick a number of combat maneuvers to define your dueling style. During play, each round, maneuvers are chosen secretly, then shown simultaneously. A table of matched-maneuvers assigns a modifier to the player's roll of d20, which is compared to the GM's d20; higher wins, and if the winning maneuver does damage, one opponent is hit.
The real treat for combat, though, is that a given maneuver only has a limited number of possible subsequent maneuvers - so real dueling becomes a matter of designing and carrying out effective combinations. It moves fast (one roll-match per pair of combatants) and each round logically sets up the next. I remember the fight scenes having a wild, free-wheeling, desperate, exciting feel; best of all, they only took a few minutes of real time and in retrospect they look choreographed by experts.
I'd recommend
Pirates of the Spanish Main for Savage Worlds, especially if you already know the source system. The additions to the standard SW rules are slick, yet capture the essential elements of swashbuckling - and there are also swordman schools.
PDQ# may also be worth a look. I think it is more something for one-shots than something that I would play a campaign with, but it has some interesting ideas and it is free: http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies.asp#pdqs
Quote from: Gwarh;824941"All for One: Regime Diabolique" (http://www.tripleacegames.com/brands/all-for-one-regime-diabolique/)
I haven't tried it yet but it looks interesting. It comes in an "Ubiquity" engine version and a "Savage Worlds" engine version.
I can only speak for the SW version, and I can't recommend it. Swordman Schools require a Skill Speciailization not linked to an attribute (costing you a whole advance), another Edge to gain the School, and then 2-3 more Edges to complete your school and get the most out of it. AFO characters are thus pretty much frontloaded.
PotSM just requires one edge to get a swordsman school and then adds an extra effect later on Legendary rank.
AFO is also terribly organized with rules and school edges all over the place.
I'm still a big fan of Castle Falkenstein's dueling system, and there's nothing there stopping you from moving it back a couple of centuries.
I'll second Pirates and Dragons, great game.
50 Fathoms was a blast for Savage Worlds and remains my favorite campaign we ever played all-time. Combines Pirates of the Caribbean and Pirates of Dark Water to make for an awesome setting to explore. Pirates of the Spanish Main is great if you want all the pirate swashbuckling without the magic of 50 Fathoms.
I also love Earthdawn, and its a great game if you decide to center the campaign around the swashbuckling, river loving t'skrang and their constant House warring along the Serpent River. Especially with the Swordmaster Discipline (Core), Elementalist Discipline (core, great with a water specialization on the river), Archer Discipline (core, imagine a focus on the fire cannons of the ships rather than strictly bows/crossbows), and Boatman Discipline (Denizens or Namegivers books depending on edition, the t'skrang pirates and sailors of Earthdawn) you can make an effective riverboat team for swashbuckling adventures along the Serpent River.
Quote from: slayride35;825493I also love Earthdawn, and its a great game if you decide to center the campaign around the swashbuckling, river loving t'skrang and their constant House warring along the Serpent River.
That would be fun! There's loads of interesting factions at play along that river.
I'd like to revisit Earthdawn someday, it's a great setting. Unfortunately the GM I had for it was dead set on our playing out some EPIC story-arc that had us traipsing all over the place right from the start... it was like he loved the setting so much that he wanted to show us the whole place at once and kind of truncated the atmosphere in doing so.
Quote from: ravynwinter;825314I love the setting myself, it is one of my favorites games. WHy not just match it to a system you enjoy.
I'm mulling it over. Modified 5e perhaps...
Quote from: soltakss;825277Legend Pirates is very good as a swashbuckling supplement, which can be used with Blood Tide and RQ6.
What makes it good? And what's Blood Tide?
Quote from: pbj44;825373The real treat for combat, though, is that a given maneuver only has a limited number of possible subsequent maneuvers - so real dueling becomes a matter of designing and carrying out effective combinations.
I have not played the game, but this aspect of combat really struck me as someone finally doing it right.
Make sure you get the 2nd edition; it fleshes out the weapon choices.
(Nothing against any of the other games suggested; do any of them have this feature?)
Quote from: Arminius;825624I have not played the game, but this aspect of combat really struck me as someone finally doing it right.
Make sure you get the 2nd edition; it fleshes out the weapon choices.
(Nothing against any of the other games suggested; do any of them have this feature?)
Honor+Intrigue does for certain maneuvers e.g. Lunge and Moulinet. But not for the majority of maneuvers.
Quote from: Shipyard Locked;825580I'm mulling it over. Modified 5e perhaps...
After reading this thread and doing a minimal amount of research it looks like a 7th Sea game could be run using Pirates of the Spanish Main or one of the other games mentioned here.
The setting is great
For those interested, there are some conversions of the 7th Sea sword schools and magic styles for Honor + Intrigue Here (https://el-vagos-7th-sea-campaign-converted-to-honor-intrigue.obsidianportal.com/wikis/main-page).
I didn't read the whole thread so perhaps others have mentioned this, but Flashing Blades is a reasonable contender for the best game FGU put out, and a very fun play overall. Still in print (if you can believe it!) and very cheap.
For swashbuckling action, Alastriste is definitely the best I've seen. But in terms of english-language stuff, some of the 3e GURPS books (Swashbucklers and the Scarlet Pimpernel in particular) were quite good.