And here's where I put my tail between my legs, and beg for forgiveness.

I thought it said "so it's not on my radar." Honestly.  I really did.  Too long at the computer today.

So, I was wrong.  I'm sorry walker.

EDIT: To show you how fucked up I was reading it, the Soccer Moms comment made no fucking sense to me. Now that I've been corrected and NT has parsed it better, it makes perfect sense.

Quote from: James J SkachHere...I'll bold it for you...



WTF?

did you read the whole sentance... hes a role player... not a soccer mom

But I am a roleplayer, so it's going to be on my radar. What about the soccer moms?

EDIT: and now Ill back up slowly....

To be fair, I'm typing this during lab when I am supposed to be writing a c++ program, so I am a bit distracted and my sentences are not well constructed, nor my thoughts properly completed.

Walker: I'm sorry I've come to this discussion fairly late, I wish I'd read this thread before it was six pages long.

Let me say: I strongly appreciate and congratulate you on your sincerity in stating your anti-D20 bias up front.  I think that this is the RIGHT way to handle things, in this or any forum, to start out from a position of honesty. It will ALWAYS make your argument stronger than it would have been if you had come on here trying to pretend you were neutral toward D20 and then going on to shit all over it, like far too many of D20's detractors try to do.

Also, your new avatar rocks.

Now, that said, obviously I and others strongly disagree with your position about D20, and will argue with you about it. But before I get to any argument with you, let me say how much I appreciate the fact that you are not lying, being hypocritical or trying to hide your true position. I still think you're wrong, but I respect you far more as a worthy person to debate with by virtue of your honesty.

RPGPundit

Quote from: walkerpTo be fair, I'm typing this during lab when I am supposed to be writing a c++ program, so I am a bit distracted and my sentences are not well constructed, nor my thoughts properly completed.

It's nice of you to say, but this one is all on me and my tired eyes...

Quote from: walkerpTo be fair, I'm typing this during lab when I am supposed to be writing a c++ program, so I am a bit distracted and my sentences are not well constructed, nor my thoughts properly completed.

So what did your instructor think you were doing when you said:

"sum'bitch, Skach fuckhead!"

like it's the first time anyone's heard that....

Quote from: walkerpBut I'm not here to argue about the merits of the D20 system.  I am here to make vague, poorly-informed predictions on whether or not Star Wars Saga will make any changes to our hobby as a whole, particularly in terms of bringing in new blood.  Where is the soapbox?  I posted my opinions on the game after a one-day perusal.  Now I am asking for speculation.

Look, if you guys really want me to dis on D20, I'll start another thread so you can all freak out and feel better about yourselves.  Will that help?  Is there any hope that we could discuss the topic at hand?

Now it is entirely possible that the entire topic is bogus and not worthy of any wasted keystrokes.  If that's the case, please, as I said before, move on.  Otherwise, can we please let go of my throwaway criticisms of D20 and start discussing whether this game, which to my mind seems to be a fairly big deal in that it is such a massive license and really the only truly new rpg product Wizards has released since Eberron, which really was only a setting, will stir up some energy, cause some excitement, whatever to the hobby/industry of roleplaying?

I don't think the topic is bogus, nor do I think your being wrong about D20 is relevant to the topic at hand, so I'll grant you that.  

As to the topic at hand: I happen to agree with what I think you're saying, which is that while no doubt Saga will be a very good and successful game for WoTC, I just can't see it being the game that will bring in hordes of new young players.

It might have been, had it been released, oh, say, when Episode III actually came out?! Instead of far too fucking late when most kids have moved onto whatever the fuck they're moving on to these days (harry potter? Spider man? fucked if I know).

So yeah, I think you're basically right about this part of your statements. Saga Edition will not manage to bring in huge hordes of new gamers.  Unless, of course, they make a truly massive marketing campaign, bring the book's price down to about $10, and sell it at Toy Stores as well as prominently displaying it in stands by the Manga section of all the major bookstores. Or just bundle it with the latest Harry Potter book.  Then, the sky would be the limit.

RPGPundit

Quote from: James J SkachHere...I'll bold it for you...



WTF?

Yeah, um.. Skach? Even I think that you're being a bit too oversensitive on this one. What you quoted didn't have anything Swinish in it, he was just saying that "he's a roleplayer and soccer moms aren't".  

By all means, tear apart anything Swinish he does say, but make sure that he said it first!

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditI just can't see it being the game that will bring in hordes of new young players.

No, but once the Saga rules are applied to D&D 4th it will (OK, well, maybe not hordes, but it will be the best thing for targeting newbie RPGers since mainstream boxed set basic D&D)...or at least it has the potential to be, and WotC very rarely misses potention.  Sometimes it takes them a while to get it right (like with Star Wars Saga), but they always seem to get the right product out at the right time...even if we layment don't see it (or want to admit it).

Its definitely a step in the right direction, rules-wise. Now if they could get the packaging and promotion stuff down right.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPunditIts definitely a step in the right direction, rules-wise. Now if they could get the packaging and promotion stuff down right.

RPGPundit

I'm one of those that likes the packaging on this one. Still, WotC is still terrible at marketing their games. I sometimes wonder where d20 would be today if it didn't start off with the D&D name. :confused:

Now if they could release a Saga D&D and market it properly, we might all have to give up or geek cred for playing it.

Quote from: RPGPunditIts definitely a step in the right direction, rules-wise. Now if they could get the packaging and promotion stuff down right.

RPGPundit

I still stand by my (unpopular) analysis that the CMG starter is in fact the perfect entry level package for the RPG.  

Teach the core D20 mechanic and combat system first, without the burden of all that "role" playing crap...after that, role playing or wargaming (depending on the way the player swings) is the natural step.

The CMG is quicker and easier to play and learn, a more attractive package than RPG books, is a more comprehensible as a "game" to the newbie, and is just plain fun.  Any who are potential role players will start to ask, "Why can't or how, can my figure do this?"...and that's how one gets introduced to role playing.

Moving from the CMG to the RPG system will be a snap, and the natural progression of any would be role players.

Quote from: grubmanI still stand by my (unpopular) analysis that the CMG starter is in fact the perfect entry level package for the RPG.

I don't see why you think it's an unpopular analysis -- I agree with you, and I happen to be the most important person, evar, so your analysis is, by my definition, popular.

Star Wars CMG is actually pretty fun, but my favorite CMG at the moment is Heroscape.

Now if only Hasbro would combine Heroscape and hex-based maps with d20....

Hey Pundy, you're late, I already apologized

Quote from: ElectroKittyI don't see why you think it's an unpopular analysis -- I agree with you, and I happen to be the most important person, evar, so your analysis is, by my definition, popular.

Star Wars CMG is actually pretty fun, but my favorite CMG at the moment is Heroscape.

Now if only Hasbro would combine Heroscape and hex-based maps with d20....

you just described D&D 4.0 :hehe: