Quote from: rhialto on October 11, 2022, 10:14:27 AM
How will the Armor ST work? Maybe a full example will help. Your draft system seems workable as long as HP remain low, and this seems like less Space Opera, more Traveller-like play style.

If this seems slightly modified, that's because it's is.  Essentially combat is a single (or pair) of opposed dice rolls.  This is a lot like how palladium books does it.  A strike vs parry.  However, I do this opposed roll a second time when a strike is successful.   This time it's weapon damage vs armor resistance.  Subtract the armor roll from the damage.


You roll an attack with a D20+attack bonus.  The target number is also a D20+ then enemy's attack bonus.  Defender wins a tie.  If you hit, roll your weapon damage, while the enemy rolls their armor dice. That armor dice roll is damage that's subtracted from the damage.  It's entirely possible to roll a poor weapon damage vs a great armor rating and take no damage from being hit. 

That being said, I'm thinking that armor dice will always be smaller than equivalent weaponry damage numbers, and probably do that by having a negative suffix. 

Example.  A One-hand arming sword does 2D4 damage.  A chain mail hauberk & padding absorbs 1D6-2 damage (0,0,1,2,3,4).  A successful attack rolls 3 & 4, aka 7 damage.  The defenders armor roll a 3, reduced to a 1.   The defender takes 6 damage

Quote from: weirdguy564 on October 14, 2022, 11:17:20 PM

Quote from: rhialto on October 11, 2022, 10:14:27 AM
How will the Armor ST work? Maybe a full example will help. Your draft system seems workable as long as HP remain low, and this seems like less Space Opera, more Traveller-like play style.

If this seems slightly modified, that's because it's is.  Essentially combat is a single (or pair) of opposed dice rolls.  This is a lot like how palladium books does it.  A strike vs parry.  However, I do this opposed roll a second time when a strike is successful.   This time it's weapon damage vs armor resistance.  Subtract the armor roll from the damage.


You roll an attack with a D20+attack bonus.  The target number is also a D20+ then enemy's attack bonus.  Defender wins a tie.  If you hit, roll your weapon damage, while the enemy rolls their armor dice. That armor dice roll is damage that's subtracted from the damage.  It's entirely possible to roll a poor weapon damage vs a great armor rating and take no damage from being hit. 

That being said, I'm thinking that armor dice will always be smaller than equivalent weaponry damage numbers, and probably do that by having a negative suffix. 

Example.  A One-hand arming sword does 2D4 damage.  A chain mail hauberk & padding absorbs 1D6-2 damage (0,0,1,2,3,4).  A successful attack rolls 3 & 4, aka 7 damage.  The defenders armor roll a 3, reduced to a 1.   The defender takes 6 damage

Got it, thanks; it's a modified version of Stormbringer then, with the difference being the opposed attack/defense rolls in your system always results in a "winner" based on highest roll (what some BRP variants term the "Blackjack System", i.e. highest successful roll wins). Your treatment of armor is just like Stormbringer, but when I read "armor Saving Throw" I inferred "roll a ST vs. armor type, all or nothing results", which is what I usually interpret a ST as implying (i.e., a binary result).

Phoenix Command uses melee damage tables for blunt, flanged, cutting, or stabbing attacks. Cross-index impact damage (force of the blow) with hit location to determine degree of injury. Armor reduces the effective impact damage and so lessens injury.

One game I play now doesn't use damage rolls.  Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool Edition.  All weapons do 1 damage, and 2-handed weapons do 2 damage. 

You can't really reduce that.  This is the game I'll probably borrow Armor Savings Throws from Warhammer tabletop war games.  I think 5+ save for light armor, 4+ for medium armor, and 3+ for heavy armor. 

Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on October 15, 2022, 04:26:01 PM
Phoenix Command uses melee damage tables for blunt, flanged, cutting, or stabbing attacks. Cross-index impact damage (force of the blow) with hit location to determine degree of injury. Armor reduces the effective impact damage and so lessens injury.

Yes, but my HPC allocation is mostly gone, so using a cluster to crunch all the rules to figure out the results may take a while.

(I loved reading the system -- and I liked the simplified sci-fi game/setting they did with the gorn-like aliens with a Predator mentality.)

Quote from: Tod13 on October 16, 2022, 06:53:59 PM

Quote from: Neoplatonist1 on October 15, 2022, 04:26:01 PM
Phoenix Command uses melee damage tables for blunt, flanged, cutting, or stabbing attacks. Cross-index impact damage (force of the blow) with hit location to determine degree of injury. Armor reduces the effective impact damage and so lessens injury.

Yes, but my HPC allocation is mostly gone, so using a cluster to crunch all the rules to figure out the results may take a while.

(I loved reading the system -- and I liked the simplified sci-fi game/setting they did with the gorn-like aliens with a Predator mentality.)

HPC?

I've used PC exclusively for years so the crunch isn't a bother.

Unfortunately for me, I found that the intriguing setting as is is broken--I tried running an apocalypse campaign during the alien invasion, but found that the scope and scale defeated me. There's just too much world-building needed, and the economics don't work given the lack of efficient transportation, unless everyone has access to grav ships and teleportation. Either the characters are stuck in one location (dull) or they can globe-trot (overwhelming).

It's a bit late for this, but I finally got around to start reading Dragon Warriors.

This does look like a good game system.  I'm ashamed of myself for taking so long to read it.  Be kind to me, as I only just started reading it. 

I do like that they keep the dice rolling down by changing how weapons stats are written.  They have an armor penetration dice code, but fixed damage numbers. 

Quote from: weirdguy564 on December 18, 2022, 08:35:33 PM
It's a bit late for this, but I finally got around to start reading Dragon Warriors.

This does look like a good game system.  I'm ashamed of myself for taking so long to read it.  Be kind to me, as I only just started reading it. 

I do like that they keep the dice rolling down by changing how weapons stats are written.  They have an armor penetration dice code, but fixed damage numbers.

I'm twelve or so sessions into running my Dragon Warriors game, so lemme know if you have any questions. I might be able to help.

Seen no mention of Tunnels and Trolls so will throw that hat into the ring. Armour reduces damage and warriors get the option of doubling up armour but with the risk of breakage as a result.

The game plays well by post without combat dragging (though I've applied a few house rules to speed things along too) and its cheap enough (including free as a try out) in PDF on drive thru.

A possible problem for the worlds 2nd oldest RPG/1st ever sorta clone is the current owners of the IP. Not only haven't they done anything with the game since buying it they are starting to drive away 3rd party producers for the game.

It's small enough that we're only talking change to buy T&T stuff but games like T&T always lived in the shadow of the 800lb gorilla and were never seen as serious alternatives. As a rules light dungeon crawling game, it's hard to beat. Plus there are loads of Fighting Fantasy style solo adventures for it. The Deluxe 2015 edition is somewhat padded out with stuff I'll never use but for the most part is pretty good.

FWIW, I used this with 3.5 back in the day.  I was quite happy with GnG

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/19384/GrimnGritty-Hit-Point-and-Combat-Rules-Version-40

Quote from: APN on December 19, 2022, 03:31:35 PM
Seen no mention of Tunnels and Trolls so will throw that hat into the ring. Armour reduces damage and warriors get the option of doubling up armour but with the risk of breakage as a result.

The game plays well by post without combat dragging (though I've applied a few house rules to speed things along too) and its cheap enough (including free as a try out) in PDF on drive thru.

A possible problem for the worlds 2nd oldest RPG/1st ever sorta clone is the current owners of the IP. Not only haven't they done anything with the game since buying it they are starting to drive away 3rd party producers for the game.

It's small enough that we're only talking change to buy T&T stuff but games like T&T always lived in the shadow of the 800lb gorilla and were never seen as serious alternatives. As a rules light dungeon crawling game, it's hard to beat. Plus there are loads of Fighting Fantasy style solo adventures for it. The Deluxe 2015 edition is somewhat padded out with stuff I'll never use but for the most part is pretty good.

I have a PDF.  I've tried reading it, but it truly was written before many modern terms and acronyms became standardized in RPGs. 

It's clunky and hard to read.  I'll stick to other games. 

I'm even re-reading Palladium Fantasy 1st edition.  That is a game I know very well. 

Quote from: rhialto on October 15, 2022, 07:25:12 AM
...
Got it, thanks; it's a modified version of Stormbringer then, with the difference being the opposed attack/defense rolls in your system always results in a "winner" based on highest roll (what some BRP variants term the "Blackjack System", i.e. highest successful roll wins). Your treatment of armor is just like Stormbringer, but when I read "armor Saving Throw" I inferred "roll a ST vs. armor type, all or nothing results", which is what I usually interpret a ST as implying (i.e., a binary result).

The BRP SB/MW "armor roll" has almost universally been dropped in favor of static DR for good reasons.

4 rolls to resolve one hit is just a bit much.

The opposed roll + Dmg, then subtract DR is just faster in play.

Quote from: weirdguy564 on October 15, 2022, 07:01:04 PM
One game I play now doesn't use damage rolls.  Dungeons and Delvers Dice Pool Edition.  All weapons do 1 damage, and 2-handed weapons do 2 damage. 

You can't really reduce that.  This is the game I'll probably borrow Armor Savings Throws from Warhammer tabletop war games.  I think 5+ save for light armor, 4+ for medium armor, and 3+ for heavy armor. 

This could be interesting for an RPG. It'd probably go best with fixed damage like illustrated.

I'm at the point that if it takes more then two rolls to resolve a hit in combat; I'm out. Almost every system that takes more than two just isn't worth the hassle during actual play at the table.

TORG. Damage Value of a weapon is compared to Toughness of a character, with the result being read on a table to determine Shock, Wounds, and so forth.

Armor is rated in "adds", which are added to a character's Toughness. So a shirt of Chainmail is +3, a breastplate is +5, leathers (tanned hides) is +2. Adding a helmet increases the armor by +1, full limbs by another +1 (but adds an exhaustion penalty).

So a full suit of chainmail is +5, full plate is +7, etc.

I surprised nobody has mentioned GURPS.

If the rulebook size is too much (and it definitely gets there), stick with 2e.

Passive Defense for things like Shields (making the target harder to hit), Damage Resistance for locations with armor (reducing HP loss).