In the wake of my previous thread (summoning demons), I'm faced with another old question that I've been skirting around ever since ed 3 came out.

A succubus' ability to polymorph is limited to "humanoid form" ... trouble is, with all the changes coming from the systematization of creature type, I'm befuddled. Does the limitation mean that the demon can polymorph only to creatures of the humanoid type (goblinoids, player races, lizard men, gith...) or does it mean she can take any bipedal, 2 armed and one headed shape, what is generally recognised as "humanoid" (which mould include, monstrous humanoids, giants, quite a few outsiders... MUCH more possibilities of fun) .

I'm asking because, while I'm not above making house rules (in MY campaign it works thatway), I want to know when I'm going by the book, and when I'm doing my own thing, just in case I have to solve campaign conflicts between different DM's, or if I do some "official stuff".

In the same vein, since the FAQ's found on the wotc site are definitely not up to snuff, where is there a good site for finding answers to  such interpretation questions?

Only humanoid type.  Thats the way its always been through all the editions.  Plus with what your talking your also getting outside of the limits of what a polymorph spell can do.

If you want to house rule that it covers anything of general "humanoid" shape then your going to have to increase the CR of the succubus.  It makes fighting very different if ever time their threatened they can polymorph into a Fire Giant and just pound you to a bloody pulp.

I went over to the wizards site and dug up the errata for the MM, with the adjustments made for the whole new method of handling polymorph.

QuoteDemon, Succubus
Monster Manual, page 48
Remove “polymorph (self only)” from spell-like
abilities.
Add the following entry:
Change Shape (Su): A succubus can assume the form
of any Small or Medium humanoid.

So what is change shape?

QuoteA creature with this special quality has the ability to assume the appearance of a specific creature or type of creature (usually humanoid), but retains most of its own physical qualities. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using change shape reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts
retain their shape. A creature cannot use change shape to take the form of a creature with a template. Changing shape results in the following changes to the creature:
•   The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form It gains the size of the new form.
•   The creature loses the natural weapons and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
•   The creature gains the natural weapons, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
•   The creature retains all other special attacks and qualities of its original form, except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.
•   The creature retains the ability scores of its original form.
•   Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
•   The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
•   The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form and gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
•   Any gear worn or carried by the creature that cant be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice-versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.

Since it says explicity that the creature is limited to the written type, I'm gonna say a succubus is limited to only humanoids and not humanoid shaped things (like golems).

Quote from: KnightcrawlerOnly humanoid type.  Thats the way its always been through all the editions.  Plus with what your talking your also getting outside of the limits of what a polymorph spell can do.

If you want to house rule that it covers anything of general "humanoid" shape then your going to have to increase the CR of the succubus.  It makes fighting very different if ever time their threatened they can polymorph into a Fire Giant and just pound you to a bloody pulp.

What do you mean? succubi cast at lvl 12 ... so a standard polymorph spell could easily let you assume the shape of an ogre, troll, minotaur, or even hill giant... of course, I had forgotten that in AD&D, the succubus was limited in that it had to keep approximately to her proper size... but yeah, I recently read a comic about a succubus 'morphing into battle mode... not that it's her normal way, but it can be useful at times... plus, I was thinking about a succubus impersonating some of the giant races... a succubus 'morphed into a minotaur would never be suspected... and turning into a trollwife might help give the players an adventure worthy of the old legends... plus, it would change from the traditional "princess in distress" or "elven maid" disguises...

And thanks Erge... to boot, I had not thought of checking the errata...

Quote from: SvartalfWhat do you mean? succubi cast at lvl 12 ... so a standard polymorph spell could easily let you assume the shape of an ogre, troll, minotaur, or even hill giant... of course, I had forgotten that in AD&D, the succubus was limited in that it had to keep approximately to her proper size... but yeah, I recently read a comic about a succubus 'morphing into battle mode... not that it's her normal way, but it can be useful at times... plus, I was thinking about a succubus impersonating some of the giant races... a succubus 'morphed into a minotaur would never be suspected... and turning into a trollwife might help give the players an adventure worthy of the old legends... plus, it would change from the traditional "princess in distress" or "elven maid" disguises...

And thanks Erge... to boot, I had not thought of checking the errata...

Unfortunately, with Change Shape, a subbubus would be limited by her own ability scores, so a "battlemode" would not do anything beyond cosmetics, unless, of course, that battlemode had access to some hefty natural weapons.

Nope, the new and improved "battlecubus" will have to rely on a few levels of sorcerer and stuff like bull strength, bear endurance and cat grace, plus  or  extra combat feats... or, of course, She'll just need to be very sneaky and get somebody else to do the fightin' for her... so it's biz as usual, unless I decide to play house rule, and have a demon lady who can really polymorph... I bet that as a dragon, she'll have all the pedophile ones begging for her favors '

"A creature using change shape reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts
retain their shape."

So, if I regenerate and can change shape, I can harvest myself for parts?  Or someone can harvest me for parts if say, to steal from a nearby thread, a mind flayer has dominated someone that can do both?
I did not know that.