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Strength of spellcasters in 5E compared to 3.5/PF

Started by mAcular Chaotic, June 20, 2015, 01:40:02 PM

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Omega

#45
June 23, 2015, 05:41:55 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;837760The fighter selected for flexibility of the range attack the rogue used message like an always on combat mic to the whole team and mage hand like all the time.
He also really liked sleep versus the massed goblins they fought for the first few sessions so he picked it up as soon as he hit 3rd (start of session 4).

They will get feats but they are still 3rd level (yes I have reduced XP SIGNIFICANTLY....) after 6 4 hour sessions.

Message is blocked by
Quote1ft of Stone, 1 inch of common metal, a thin sheet of lead, or 3ft of wood.
The spell can turn corners or get through through openings. But all that can easily use up its 120ft range fast in a dungeon or forest. Also it only targets one person at a time. Not a problem while exploring though. But alot can happen in the 2 rounds between "all clear" and "urk!"

As for Mage Hand. What are they doing with it other than remote lock picking or remote trap disarming? It still cannot hold a weapon or be used in combat, or carry heavy things?

Omega

#46
June 23, 2015, 05:53:13 PM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;837809I really wish EK wasn't focused on being a blaster.  It's a FIGHTER! You get killy-death dealing out of the box.  Giving the EK more buff ability would have been much better.

And yes, I realize you can grab a few free spells as you level, but still, it's only a few.

I am running an Elditch Knight after the current session ends and I can assure you they are not focused on blasty spells. You only get 2. And with some feat choices or just plain stat bonuses you can out-perform those with your melee weapon. Havent decided on what cantrips to take yet. Maybe Ray of Frost and some utility spell.

Warboss Squee

#47
June 23, 2015, 06:02:24 PM
Quote from: Omega;837849I am running an Elditch Knight after the current session ends and I can assure you they are not focused on blasty spells. You only get 2. And with some feat choices or just plain stat bonuses you can out-perform those with your melee weapon. Havent decided on what cantrips to take yet. Maybe Ray of Frost and some utility spell.

Thought they were limited ti Evocation spells.

Marleycat

#48
June 23, 2015, 07:02:43 PM
Quote from: Beagle;837507If Willy the Wizard cannot manage his resources, it is his own damn fault. You cannot truly reward smart thinking and ressourcefulness if you don't occasionally punish recklessness and bad ressource management. In the long run, having meagre ressources and the resulting increase in tension and relevance of actual tatctical decisions resulting from it are a decent upgrade for the actual game, and probably are worth it, even if that means listening to the mage player's whining while he needs to readjust his entitlement issues.

You have that game already it's called Dnd 1-2e. Go play it and quit complaining that most people don't like that much bookeeping anymore.

@Doom, try this...stop playing with asshats.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

Marleycat

#49
June 23, 2015, 07:09:52 PM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;837851Thought they were limited ti Evocation spells.

Evocation/Abjuration with 3-4 free picks. Also an EK is far better off using close quarters melee spells than doing the classic bladesinger thing. Fact is the VB is probably a better option for that style.

In either case you will be at disadvantage if you use non-touch spells in melee.
Don\'t mess with cats we kill wizards in one blow.;)

jibbajibba

#50
June 23, 2015, 08:34:43 PM
Quote from: Omega;837848Message is blocked by

The spell can turn corners or get through through openings. But all that can easily use up its 120ft range fast in a dungeon or forest. Also it only targets one person at a time. Not a problem while exploring though. But a lot can happen in the 2 rounds between "all clear" and "urk!"

As for Mage Hand. What are they doing with it other than remote lock picking or remote trap disarming? It still cannot hold a weapon or be used in combat, or carry heavy things?

Its general scouting feeding back information etc.

So the Trickster took Find Familiar as a spell and has a giant (well large) spider as his familiar. The spider scouts ahead on the ceiling the rogue follows at range and then messages back to one of the party what he "sees".
Leads to very cautious play.

The mage hand does all the creative stuff an invisible hand that can pick pockets and remove traps can do at range :)
So removing weapons from opponents (empty a quiver of arrows, slide a sword out of a sheath), tying or untying ropes for traps, alarms and escapes.
Just the typical stuff.

I don't mind it at all its creative and smart but it is a thing and its constant.
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Opaopajr

#51
June 23, 2015, 08:38:20 PM
What, no love for Abjuration? Are Shield, Counterspell, and Dispel Magic no longer exciting? :(

As for EK cantrips, other than my favorite utility ones, I vote for Gust (Fus Roh Dah!) or Friends. Friends will be fun for when you persuade or intimidate others, then when they get hostile to you beat them down for XP and take their stuff. You could take the Pirate background and then you can get away with some of it with your Bad Reputation, too!
:p
(Yes, I know GMs won't let Friends be abused that easily. Poor murderhobos...)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Omega

#52
June 23, 2015, 08:39:02 PM
Quote from: Warboss Squee;837851Thought they were limited ti Evocation spells.

Meant utility cantrips.
Eldritch Knight starts with 3 1st level spells, 2 must be from abjuration and evocation. Later spells must be abjuration and evocation until they reach level 8.

Opaopajr

#53
June 23, 2015, 08:44:20 PM
The Arcane Trickster is doing it right. Too bad it's becoming a tedious constant. I've already seen similar, and expected it beforehand.

(Knowing now what I suspected then, I think I still would prefer cantrips given total slots equal to spell casting attribute + PB.)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Omega

#54
June 23, 2015, 08:52:54 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;837867So the Trickster took Find Familiar as a spell and has a giant (well large) spider as his familiar.

The mage hand does all the creative stuff an invisible hand that can pick pockets and remove traps can do at range :)
So removing weapons from opponents (empty a quiver of arrows, slide a sword out of a sheath), tying or untying ropes for traps, alarms and escapes.
Just the typical stuff.

I don't mind it at all its creative and smart but it is a thing and its constant.

1: I assume you mean its just a large normal spider. up to like  a tarantula?

2: I assume that this is outside of combat and targets of these disarming actions are getting some sort of chance to spot this? They still have to make the thieves tools uses to disarm traps. So there is always the chance of failure  which could alert anyone nearby. So some risk with the use.

And of course the enemy can do the same thing to them.

Natty Bodak

#55
June 23, 2015, 08:58:42 PM
Quote from: jibbajibba;837867The mage hand does all the creative stuff an invisible hand that can pick pockets and remove traps can do at range :)
So removing weapons from opponents (empty a quiver of arrows, slide a sword out of a sheath), tying or untying ropes for traps, alarms and escapes.
Just the typical stuff.

I don't mind it at all its creative and smart but it is a thing and its constant.

A friend of mine affectionately refers to Mage Hand as "Diego Maradona's Hand of God," which is some sort of soccer reference about getting away with something I guess? But, I don't think Mage Hand is supposed to be invisible. It's truly the spell of a million uses.
Festering fumaroles vent vile vapors!

Opaopajr

#56
June 23, 2015, 09:03:12 PM
IIRC, Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand becomes invisible. Like how Illusionist Wizards get Minor Illusion cantrip altered with both sound and visual, etc.

(edit: "I'm just heading the ball, honest!" — Maradona :p)
Just make your fuckin\' guy and roll the dice, you pricks. Focus on what\'s interesting, not what gives you the biggest randomly generated virtual penis.  -- J Arcane
 
You know, people keep comparing non-TSR D&D to deck-building in Magic: the Gathering. But maybe it\'s more like Katamari Damacy. You keep sticking shit on your characters until they are big enough to be a star.
-- talysman

Natty Bodak

#57
June 23, 2015, 09:09:31 PM
Quote from: Opaopajr;837881IIRC, Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand becomes invisible. Like how Illusionist Wizards get Minor Illusion cantrip altered with both sound and visual, etc.

(edit: "I'm just heading the ball, honest!" — Maradona :p)

Oh! That's a pretty sweet benny then.
Festering fumaroles vent vile vapors!

Doom

#58
June 23, 2015, 10:32:30 PM
Quote from: Marleycat;837857@Doom, try this...stop playing with asshats.

??? Can you clarify? Are you talking about players at my table?
(taken during hurricane winds)

A nice education blog.

rawma

#59
June 23, 2015, 11:18:07 PM
Quote from: Omega;83776338 since you round down. But whos counting? :cool:

It's 39 if you're careful to only shoot an even number of arrows before collecting, unless you only have one arrow; you shoot 2 arrows and collect one back (or 2N with N back), so until you have one arrow left you can get two shots per arrow you lose: 38. Then the last arrow only gives you one shot, so total of 39. It's only 20 if you shoot one arrow per combat. I'm counting, that's who. :p

(It's kind of like how a spherical area of effect ends up being square on a grid, or flanking diagonally to minimize non-AoO shifting, or a defensive line with the grain on a hex map.)
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