So I'd like to get my friends to play a Western RPG as a break from our AD&D game as I'm not all that into fantasy anyway. I used to have Aces & Eights but found it was too rules-heavy for me and wasted too many pages on its alternate history setting for me. Traded A&8s away for some Traveller stuff. Loved the shot clock but damned if I couldbe bothered with so many rules and I prefer to set such games in the "real world" Old West (as in no zombies or magic Injuns or "the Confederacy won" and such, more like a good Louis L'Amour tale). The only Western RPG I have now is 3rd Ed Boot Hill. I like it find but was wondering if there are any others I should check out? My main criteria are that the game should be fairly easy for a player to create a character and walk right into the saloon and start adventuring and I don't want to deal with "fantasy Western" or soi-disant "Weird West" stuff that has to be extracted from the game to play in a more real setting. Oh, and please don't suggest any "universal systems" like GURPS, Hero, or Savage Worlds as I personally just want a Western game; I don't want to have to tailor my own game from a toolkit. And very important to me is I want an actual book, not a PDF as my eyes can't take it. Any good ones out there? Is non-fantastic Western a tall order?
Happy trails!
You've ruled out all of the obvious candidates.
But there is Dark City Games' free Untamed West (http://darkcitygames.com/docs/UntamedWest.pdf) (pdf link). It's a very rules-light game based on the classic Fantasy Trip engine. You can definitely use it start play quickly and wade into a gunfight with tactical use of miniatures, and there is a solitaire module available.
edit: so you want a printed book only? Picky picky.
I liked 1e Boot Hill and to a lesser degree 2e. Plays pretty well really though 1e is mostly a skirmish wargame rather than an RPG.
I will second Legends of the Untamed West as at least worth a glance over as it is a free rules system. The solo adventures are the not-free part.
I just finished playetsting a co-op board game version of Blackwater Gulch, which is a pretty good western themed skirmish game. Heres the old Kickstarter page Blackwater Gulch (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/gangfightgames/blackwater-gulch-gangfights-in-the-old-west) Unfortunately parts of their site are DOA.
If you like the Action system. Gold Rush Games is still selling
Gunslingers as a PDF for 2$.
As you're already familiar with AD&D one of the d20/D&D derivatives could be up your alley:
- Go fer yer Gun!
- Blood & Bullets
- OGL Wild West
For something else:
- Coyote Trail; simple, but deadly system from Precis Intermedia
- Wild West from FGU; free online, early 80s RPG which I'm not familiar with though
Personally I would go for Coyote Trail; it's something fresh, different and easy to use.
I'm a big fan of western RPGs and have quite a few on my shelf.
Quote from: Omega;806007I liked 1e Boot Hill and to a lesser degree 2e. Plays pretty well really though 1e is mostly a skirmish wargame rather than an RPG.
Boot Hill is my go-to western RPG. I have 1E, 2E, and 3E and find all to be fine games. 1E is my favorite but it does lack some of the depth of character that many folks are looking to find in a RPG, so 3E may be a better bet for you. (As you own 3E already, I'd count it as your best candidate. Finding 1E or 2E will cost you some decent money and you might not like the minimalist style as much anyway.)
Quote from: Vonn;806009As you're already familiar with AD&D one of the d20/D&D derivatives could be up your alley:
- Go fer yer Gun!
I think that
Go Fer Yer Gun is an excellent d20 version of the western genre and like it better than the other ones listed.
Another option to consider is
Owl Hoot Trail by Pelgrane press, which is based on one of those minimalist d20 rules systems instead of all-out d20. It has fantasy elements in it, but you could ignore those.
Quote from: finarvyn;806012I think that Go Fer Yer Gun is an excellent d20 version of the western genre and like it better than the other ones listed.
And it's free as well at rpgnow.com! :cool:
What old-school (or new-school!) fantasy adventures have you converted to SWN? I was considering putting the Isle of Dread on a world where genetech was common prior to the Scream... The same goes with Carcosa, which could be a world in an SWN Sector with some modifications...
Another d20 take on the old west that is very easy to use for one-shots and short campaigns is Tumbleweed for Microlite20: http://www.retroroleplaying.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=108
It is also free as in beer, so there is no reason not to take a look at it.
Thank you all for the tips and suggestions!
Merry Christmas!
Boot Hill 3e has been the best I've found. A system with some detail, and a usable RPG framework, but not a bloated, complex tome.
Like the OP, I found A&8's to be far too complex. Coyote Trail left me with a general meh feeling. A d20 Western RPG of any kind really turns me off.
Get Coyote Trail Expanded and you'll have everything you need. You get a free pdf with the printed book. Granted, characters start out really vulnerable and the game is pretty deadly but you can easily fix that without breaking the system. Shipping costs a bit too high for you? Check it out on Book Depository. Send Precis Intermedia proof of your purchase and you'll still get your free pdf.
Another light western game that I really like is Gunslingers & Gamblers. It's available for two different rules sets. For a print version you'll have to go to Lulu.
BRP: Aces High is nice, but yeah, some semi-optional supernatural stuff in there. In this particular case it's very easy to just leave it out, though, so it may still be worth taking a look at.
If you don't mind the line between wargame and rpg blurred, take a look at Six Gun Sound by Two Hour Wargames. Best of all, if your group can't make it, you can play solo:)
Quote from: RunningLaser;806032If you don't mind the line between wargame and rpg blurred, take a look at Six Gun Sound by Two Hour Wargames. Best of all, if your group can't make it, you can play solo:)
Solo is always good to have as an option. Where can I learn more of this game? And where is that line anyway? Sometimes when we play Risk we adopt personae of ruthless, conquest-mad dictators...
Quote from: Matt;806033Solo is always good to have as an option. Where can I learn more of this game? And where is that line anyway? Sometimes when we play Risk we adopt personae of ruthless, conquest-mad dictators...
Matt, here's the main site for Two Hour Wargames. (http://www.twohourwargames.com/)
They have quite a big line up of games- historical, fantasy, modern, sci-fi, pulp, zombies and a couple more:)
THW has a cult following amongst solo gamers. Great stuff.
Here's Six Gun Sound (http://www.twohourwargames.com/sixgunsound.html)
They have two sets of rules that are free for download, Chain Reaction and Swordplay. Both should give you a good idea of what the rules are like.
Here's the link for that:) (http://www.twohourwargames.com/free.html)
Quote from: RunningLaser;806035They have two sets of rules that are free for download, Chain Reaction and Swordplay. Both should give you a good idea of what the rules are like.
Definitely give the free rules a look first. All THW games are sprung from the same base mechanism.
Some folks (like me) think they're great fun... others find the games they provide to be too far out of the hands of players, forces often seem to ignore orders or do unexpected things.
Also, the 'style' of the author can be a bit off-putting for some (he can come off as hating on RPGs despite his scifi and fantasy games edging ever closer to being full blown RPGs).
They're the sort of games best learned while playing but the THW forum is a big help with questions.
I myself would go with
Aces High... but it does have some easily ignored supernatural elements of the sort the OP doesn't seem able to easily ignore.
Mainly it's thatmy time for RPGs is extremely limited so the less time I have to spend modifying a game, the better, so my preference is a game we can jump right into as written. Don't want to have to extract a bunch of stuff I know I will never use.
Matt- I hear you on the limited time for gaming. I have two young kids:)
Definitely take Simlasa's advice with THW and download the free rules first. Give them a brief read and just play a couple of games. The rules can seem different at first and do play better than read.
If you decide to get Six Gun Sound: Blaze of Glory I'd recommend getting the pdf and printing it out. All of the THW books that I've gotten are comb bound affairs- you're losing nothing by going the pdf route and printing it yourself.
If I recall right, the biggest difference between the free rules and the standard books is the campaign specific material and rules changes specific for that setting. For example, I played All Things Zombie a while back. Each time you fired a gun, there was a chance zombies that weren't seen on the table would appear out of nowhere. Pretty neat:) ATZ also had a very abstracted combat system for fights within a building that you entered. Also the book had an outline for a campaign you could follow.
Quote from: Matt;805994So I'd like to get my friends to play a Western RPG as a break from our AD&D game as I'm not all that into fantasy anyway. I used to have Aces & Eights but found it was too rules-heavy for me and wasted too many pages on its alternate history setting for me. Traded A&8s away for some Traveller stuff. Loved the shot clock but damned if I couldbe bothered with so many rules and I prefer to set such games in the "real world" Old West (as in no zombies or magic Injuns or "the Confederacy won" and such, more like a good Louis L'Amour tale). The only Western RPG I have now is 3rd Ed Boot Hill. I like it find but was wondering if there are any others I should check out? My main criteria are that the game should be fairly easy for a player to create a character and walk right into the saloon and start adventuring and I don't want to deal with "fantasy Western" or soi-disant "Weird West" stuff that has to be extracted from the game to play in a more real setting. Oh, and please don't suggest any "universal systems" like GURPS, Hero, or Savage Worlds as I personally just want a Western game; I don't want to have to tailor my own game from a toolkit. And very important to me is I want an actual book, not a PDF as my eyes can't take it. Any good ones out there? Is non-fantastic Western a tall order?
Happy trails!
Since you have got Traveller, I would suggest checking this out (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/rpgs/traveller/adventures-and-campaigns/cowboys-vs-xenomorphs.html). Just ignore the xenomorphs part.
Quote from: 3rik;806028Another light western game that I really like is Gunslingers & Gamblers. It's available for two different rules sets. For a print version you'll have to go to Lulu.
This is the one that uses poker dice innit? I should check it out sometime.
I heart my copy of Boot Hill 3.
Quote from: Raven;806053This is the one that uses poker dice innit? I should check it out sometime.
I heart my copy of Boot Hill 3.
Yes, people seem to enjoy that a lot but I personally prefer the Streamline edition, which is an elegant d100-based rules set also used in the same publisher's
Privateers & Pirates game.
I really love me some Coyote Trail! It's a wonderful take on Western gaming.
Agreed, Coyote Trail is a darn good Western RPG that fits all the OP's criteria since you can get a softcover book. Also you have Colonial Record supplement for Last of the Mohicans goodness. It's my favorite of the Genre Diversion games I think.
D&D 5e + DMG. Remove the magic classes and spells, restrict race & remaining sub-classes, add in DMG gun rules. Think about shifting Short & Long Rest duration and HD healing.
I'm doing something similar setting wise, except 5e RAW. The system is surprisingly robust so far. I already have a feel for how it would be if I shifted the grittiness.
I've played short campaigns of both Coyote Trail and Aces & Eights, I really like both of them, but don't feel that either would work for me as a full-campaign.
Coyote Trail is a bit too rules-light, Aces & Eights a bit too rules-heavy.
Was there an OSR wild-west game? Or did I dream it?
I don't mean Boot Hill, I mean some kind of D&D-clone expressly for wild west play?
Quote from: RPGPundit;806233Was there an OSR wild-west game? Or did I dream it?
I don't mean Boot Hill, I mean some kind of D&D-clone expressly for wild west play?
You might think of Microlite20 Tumbleweed that I have linked above: http://www.retroroleplaying.com/forum/index.php?action=downloads;sa=downfile&id=108
Microlite20 is not an OSR game per se, although it comes close enough as far as I am concerned. It probably wouldn't be too hard to mesh the Tumbleweed setting rules with an actual OSR Microlite variant like Microlite74 or Microlite81, if the standard M20 is too "new-school" for you.
Forgot all about this one, Shotguns & Saddles (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/115779/Shotguns--Saddles-Old-School-Old-West-RPG). From what I recall, it was really good.
I'm looking into Coyote Trail. Probably go with that or just use Boot Hill. Trying to find useful reviews of Coyote Trail. Found one that left me with some reservations due to notes about the ease of called head shots resulting in instant death.
As for someone's suggestion of 5th Ed D&D: I don't want to buy a $100 game I'd never use for anything else just so I can do the work of turning it into a game it was not built to be. I'm not a fan of classes and levels anyway. Nor a fan of D&D: I play it only as a way to rope in players and then introduce them to better games that I enjoy much more.
If your not a fan of D&D. classes, dense rules, or levels. Why not run GURPS lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/3e/)(which is free), along with a PDF of Old West (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/OldWest/)?
Quote from: Ronin;806291If your not a fan of D&D. classes, dense rules, or levels. Why not run GURPS lite (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/3e/)(which is free), along with a PDF of Old West (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/OldWest/)?
You know what, I forgot I have GURPS Old West. I'll have to take a look a that. Thanks for the suggestion.
I thought FGU's Wild West was pretty good, but if you dig GURPS then I'd go with that.
I'm not keen on A&8's alt-history, but wouldn't look to a rules set to be a history book. When we played Boot Hill, we used the Time-Life series (which a friend's parents had).
Quote from: Matt;805994So I'd like to get my friends to play a Western RPG as a break from our AD&D game as I'm not all that into fantasy anyway. I used to have Aces & Eights but found it was too rules-heavy for me and wasted too many pages on its alternate history setting for me. Traded A&8s away for some Traveller stuff.
Since you mentioned Traveller, I recommend Cowboys vs. Xenomorphs (http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/us/rpgs/traveller/adventures-and-campaigns/cowboys-vs-xenomorphs.html). It is a generic western setting using Mongoose Traveller's mechanic. Just leave out the Xenomorphs.
For inspirations to help get them in the mood, I'd recommend Deadwood, Hell on Wheels and Copper.
Nothing magical or fantastical in any of them, but lots of roleplaying potential.
Wild West Cinema is a pretty simple take on the genre. I got in the sales a while back but I've not had a chance to run it yet. It's by the same author of Shotguns and Saddles but less old school in it's inspiration.
Quote from: Kiero;806413For inspirations to help get them in the mood, I'd recommend Deadwood, Hell on Wheels and Copper.
Nothing magical or fantastical in any of them, but lots of roleplaying potential.
My Western inspirations are actually from books rather than films.
Quote from: Matt;806465My Western inspirations are actually from books rather than films.
They're all TV shows, not films. Lots more depth and characterisation to them, not to mention a lot more variety of plots.
Quote from: Soylent Green;806419Wild West Cinema is a pretty simple take on the genre. I got in the sales a while back but I've not had a chance to run it yet. It's by the same author of Shotguns and Saddles but less old school in it's inspiration.
I found Wild West Cinema rather underwhelming. Haven't looked at Shotguns and Saddles.
Quote from: Matt;806281I'm looking into Coyote Trail. Probably go with that or just use Boot Hill. Trying to find useful reviews of Coyote Trail. Found one that left me with some reservations due to notes about the ease of called head shots resulting in instant death.
I either don't allow called shots to the head with Old West weaponry under most circumstances or make sure it's extremely difficult to pull off.
Quote from: Kiero;806473They're all TV shows, not films. Lots more depth and characterisation to them, not to mention a lot more variety of plots.
Whoops. I guess you can tell I don't watch much television. I didn't know Westerns were on the air since, what, the early '70s? Let alone three of 'em.
Quote from: Matt;806504Whoops. I guess you can tell I don't watch much television. I didn't know Westerns were on the air since, what, the early '70s? Let alone three of 'em.
All ran to more than one season.
Deadwood I haven't actually watched, but it won many awards, it's about a frontier town and the people who live there. Notable at the time for it's foul language as much as anything else.
Hell on Wheels is about the building of the Union Pacific railroad just after the Civil War, focusing primarily on the charlatan who owns the company and an ex-Confederate soldier hunting down the Union soldiers who raped and killed his wife during the war.
Copper is a more unusual one, it's about the a detective in the nascent NYPD, an Irishman and former Union corporal, at the tail end of the war. For me it makes a nice counterpoint to
HoW, a sort of mirror showing what's going on "back East" while the railroadmen hack away at the frontier heading west.
The latter two have all sorts of RPG-worthy plots in them that could be stolen.
Quote from: Matt;806281As for someone's suggestion of 5th Ed D&D: I don't want to buy a $100 game I'd never use for anything else just so I can do the work of turning it into a game it was not built to be. I'm not a fan of classes and levels anyway. Nor a fan of D&D: I play it only as a way to rope in players and then introduce them to better games that I enjoy much more.
The Basic version is completely free, from PHB.pdf to MM/DMG.pdf.
But classes & levels & D&D is not your thing, so there you go.
Quote from: Matt;806504Whoops. I guess you can tell I don't watch much television. I didn't know Westerns were on the air since, what, the early '70s? Let alone three of 'em.
At least four counting the Hatfields & McCoys mini series with Kevin Costner.
I know the OP stated he was not interested in HERO but Western Hero (http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/49230/western-hero) from the 4th edition days is a great source book. And as far as the Hero System rules, it is by far the easiest iteration of the rules as there is no need for the Powers system. If you can find a used copy it would be worth it.
(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic555042_md.jpg) (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic555043_md.jpg)
Quote from: Hyper-Man;806655I know the OP stated he was not interested in HERO but Western Hero (http://rpggeek.com/rpgitem/49230/western-hero) from the 4th edition days is a great all in one book. And as far as the Hero System rules, it is by far the easiest iteration of the rules as there is no need for the Powers system. If you can find a used copy it would be worth it.
(http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic555042_md.jpg) (http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic555043_md.jpg)
If I could find it cheap. 4th Ed. is the last Ed. of Champions I could manage. 5th and most of its supplements suffered from that dry, minutiae-obsessed, Steve Long-winded style that pretty well turned me into an ex-Hero customer.
There are inexpensive used copies for sale on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Hero-Campaign-Book-System/dp/1558061185
Does Western Hero include the rules, or is the 4th ed rulebook required?
Quote from: RunningLaser;806774Does Western Hero include the rules, or is the 4th ed rulebook required?
It requires a copy of the 4th edition Hero System rules. They were only bundled with the hard copy of Champions 4e (otherwise known as the big blue book with the George Perez cover).
*A pdf copy of Hero System 4e has been known to be floating on the interwebs for some time.
Quote from: Matt;806504Whoops. I guess you can tell I don't watch much television. I didn't know Westerns were on the air since, what, the early '70s? Let alone three of 'em.
There was "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman" but I really wouldn't recommend that for inspiration.