Storygaming peaked with 'Once Upon a Time' card game for me and never any farther, and that fell apart because of the competitive ending game win condition (just like 'Fiasco').

So I say, "Man the ramparts!" 

Seriously though, if they could leave well enough alone and let their product stand on its own it'd probably do much to tamp down resistance and forget past ill will.  Oh well, prostelitizing probably gets them out of the house than they would otherwise. 

Quote from: GhostNinja on April 01, 2024, 09:34:19 AM

Quote from: Omega on April 01, 2024, 01:51:03 AM
That would be nice if the storygamer fanatics would leave everyone else alone. But we are right back to the same infiltration and co-opt tactics from ten years ago. The return of their hateful little terms and the rest.

Therein lies the problem. There wouldnt be such resistance if they'd just leave everyone else the hell alone.

I am not sure what you are seeing, because none of their tactics and styles can be found in the games I play and I know there are many designers who ignore them.  It's easy to play the games we enjoy and just ignore them.

Agreed and seconded if one goes by the thread title there are rpg designers around every corner and under every rock just wanting to infiltrate every and any rpg. Even if that was the case it's not the equivalent of the red communist scare of the 1960s that Pundit makes it out to be.

Quote from: Abraxus on April 01, 2024, 10:46:46 AM
Agreed and seconded if one goes by the thread title there are rpg designers around every corner and under every rock just wanting to infiltrate every and any rpg. Even if that was the case it's not the equivalent of the red communist scare of the 1960s that Pundit makes it out to be.

Agreed.  It's almost like he makes up drama so he has something to post about (or make a video) about.  I don't like storygames.  I won't play a storygame, but storygamers being out there and existing doesn't effect my games at all.  I play the games that aren't storygames and have fun.

Which is the point of playing rpgs.  Of course I don't get all the people on here who say "I don't want politics in my game" and then discuss politics and insert it in how games are made and blame a certain party for things.  When that happens, I tend to stop coming here for awhile until things get back to normal.

I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

Quote from: Abraxus on April 01, 2024, 10:35:27 AM
I wrote a long reply to blackstone and deleted it. Going forward anyone who tells me to leave for writing an honest opinion is simply going to be blocked. I don't mind a dissenting opinion yet telling me to leave is not something I want or am paid to listen to or acknowledge. Nor am I ain't getting paid to put you with your leftist regressive and repressive BS.

Hey, opinions are like assholes: everyone has one, just some stink more than others.

Anyone can also comment on your opinion. If you didn't want a reply, then don't post anything if you can't handle it.

The FACT that it's Pundit's board and he cay say whatever he wants still stands.

Quote from: Mishihari on April 01, 2024, 12:53:28 PM
I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

Basically, people aren't allowed to have fun the wrong way as determined by the One True Path to Immersion and its fundamentalist adherents... also the designers and players who like them typically (but not always) are a bunch of irritating poopyheads.   I say this as someone who doesn't actually like narrative games myself as they seem more like round robin group improv moreso than the structured games I like but I'm still ok with other people having fun their way.

Quote from: Mishihari on April 01, 2024, 12:53:28 PM
I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

These vids are decent places to start for that.

The D&D DM is NOT a "Storyteller"

How Real RPG Play is Better Than Storyplaying

Quote from: Mishihari on April 01, 2024, 12:53:28 PM
I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

If you watch the video I literally explain all of that.

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 02, 2024, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 01, 2024, 12:53:28 PM
I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

If you watch the video I literally explain all of that.

Who's got time to watch a video with a click-bait hyperbolic title?  "Are your children playing storygames?  D&D grognards want you to know the truth about Storygamers and their corruptive agenda!"  Meh, pass.

Holy fuck though, have we come full circle? 

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on April 02, 2024, 11:45:45 AM
Who's got time to watch a video with a click-bait hyperbolic title?  "Are your children playing storygames?  D&D grognards want you to know the truth about Storygamers and their corruptive agenda!"  Meh, pass.

Holy fuck though, have we come full circle?

>Do you have anything to back up that claim?

>Why yes, here's a video where a I talk about exactly that claim. *Link to video titled That Claim*

>I'm not watching that, I already know the claim in the title is false, which means it's clickbait.

The only thing that's come full circle here is your reasoning.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on April 02, 2024, 01:19:38 PM

Quote from: Habitual Gamer on April 02, 2024, 11:45:45 AM
Who's got time to watch a video with a click-bait hyperbolic title?  "Are your children playing storygames?  D&D grognards want you to know the truth about Storygamers and their corruptive agenda!"  Meh, pass.

Holy fuck though, have we come full circle?

>Do you have anything to back up that claim?

>Why yes, here's a video where a I talk about exactly that claim. *Link to video titled That Claim*

>I'm not watching that, I already know the claim in the title is false, which means it's clickbait.

The only thing that's come full circle here is your reasoning.

1) I'm not clicking on somebody's YouTube "get off my lawn" ranting and give them views.  I don't care who they are, because...
2) I can read whatever they have to say faster than they can say it.  Especially since...
3) Whatever points are made can be summed up in a few sentences. 

It's 2024.  Any evidence on line to back up anything, and I do mean anything, can be linked to.  Opinion and hearsay are fine and all, but if that's all you have to support your argument, then that's all your argument is.

(and the whole "full circle" thing was me referencing scaremongering of the 80s trying to protect people from that "Satanic Dungeons & Dragons game".  Only now we have Pundit trying to protect us from "lib Storygamer games" it would seem.)

Quote from: RPGPundit on April 02, 2024, 07:33:47 AM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 01, 2024, 12:53:28 PM
I'm late to this party.  Can anyone explain if there's something actually wrong with story games, or is just that the designers and players are a bunch of irritating poopyheads?  And what exactly is the difference between an rpg and a storygame anyway?  I thought I understood it but I've read conflicting things in various places.

If you watch the video I literally explain all of that.

That probably seemed rude on my part, sorry.  I just pretty much don't watch any videos at all - too many demands on my time.  I was hoping for a two sentence summary.

Quote from: Mishihari on April 02, 2024, 03:02:38 PM
That probably seemed rude on my part, sorry.  I just pretty much don't watch any videos at all - too many demands on my time.  I was hoping for a two sentence summary.

The short version is that storygames are bad games because they are warping their mechanics to the end of cooperativly creating a story as opposed to emulating a world. This fails since the ideal version of cooperative story creation is cooperative narrative improvisation with no mechanics at all, so any system that introduces mechanics makes the system worse at what it's trying to do.

Quote from: Zenoguy3 on April 02, 2024, 04:59:45 PM

Quote from: Mishihari on April 02, 2024, 03:02:38 PM
That probably seemed rude on my part, sorry.  I just pretty much don't watch any videos at all - too many demands on my time.  I was hoping for a two sentence summary.

The short version is that storygames are bad games because they are warping their mechanics to the end of cooperativly creating a story as opposed to emulating a world. This fails since the ideal version of cooperative story creation is cooperative narrative improvisation with no mechanics at all, so any system that introduces mechanics makes the system worse at what it's trying to do.

At least that's as well as I understand it. I'm probably sacrificing a huge amount of understanding for the purposes of summary.

Two lines to summarize the video...

Storygames are not RPGs. You play a role in role-playing games.


In response to the video (great btw), I completely agree. Storygames should not be shaving in the RPG bathroom.