Some things that have been coming up in play test for Roma Ture20 have reminded me of the olden days back in the 90's at our stores. I would run a "new" system called World of Darkness for the D&D players there. They loved it but were constantly trying to alter the rules to be more DND-like. They wanted hp or straight up damage dice or the elimination of dice pools. When I would suggest that we just drop the DND core rules into the WOD setting, they would proclaim "No! We like the new system, but we want to tweak it".

Now, I have no problem if folks want to play one system and that is all. I do not think it is a sin, or that you are "better" if you play dozens of systems. That said though, I wonder why folks are so set in trying to change a system to resemble another system? Yeah, it may be their favorite system but then why not just port the setting?

So, have you guys encountered this? Namely, a desire to play a "new" system but to convert it in pieces to a familiar system without just porting the setting.

Thanks,
Bill

The only time I ever encountered anything like this was the first time I ran Serenity. Halfway through the first session, the players refused to continue unless the system was changed. They loved the setting but hated the system. I hacked the Cold Space engine into it in about half an hour. We did the necessary character conversions, and finished the campaign. It wasn't a perfect fit, but it worked.

I've run Palladium, Iridium - say, I just noticed that! - CoC, Ringworld, Pendragon, and a lot more, but that's the only time it ever happened. I think that system just didn't mesh with my group. They hated it.

-clash

For me, when I like most of the mechanics of a new game, but one part doesn't work for me, my first inclination is to import the mechanics of another game for that specific area.  The first example that comes to mind is the magic rules in the newer D6 games.  I love the D6 system, but the magic rules were way to cumbersome for me, so I tried dropping in magic systems from several other games.

EDIT: Although I don't think that's exactly what you meant.  My example isn't really about liking a game and wanting to alter other games to be like it, it's about liking a game but wanting to alter part of it that doesn't work for you.

Quote from: TechnomancerAlthough I don't think that's exactly what you meant.  My example isn't really about liking a game and wanting to alter other games to be like it, it's about liking a game but wanting to alter part of it that doesn't work for you.

Just as mine was about hating a system and wanting just about anything else.



-clahs

Yeah, I have had quite a few experiences with "Wow! We like the system but want to change it to be like our favorite system" and was wondering if anyone had similar ones. Clash's is what I try for when a group indicates they do not like the system (essentially swap out and mod the desired system to fit the setting).

Still, I have to say I think it would be rare. A lot of gamers are happy with their system of choice and rarely try other systems. Heck, when I was a kid, I made a Space 1999 game using DND basic. It rocked because my friends and I liked the show.

I guess the thing that gets me is when players will feel a need to play a different system but then want to back fill it to be their favorite system. Come on, just swap the system. I think it comes from a sense of "I want to try something new and different" but they really do have more fun with their tried and true system.

As an aside, I think this speaks to my theory on systems having style elements that a group enjoy, are neutral on, and dislike. Even if you love a system, often, as written, you will find something you wish was different. More basically, the trick to finding systems you like are accurately identifying the elements you like in a system and then adding or finding systems that support it.

Bill

I played nothing but D&D for at least a decade. Introducing our group to Rolemaster was like pulling teeth. But the success of that foray left me more than willing to try new stuff from then on out.

The gut reaction of my group is to change any system I'm using to d20. I have nothing much to add.

Regards,
David R

I've never had people wanting to change bits and pieces of a system. Usually, if it's not working out (I had a similar experience to Clash with Serenity) we will dump the system entirely. It's usually an all-or-none response. Either the system is adequate and gets used as is, or else we dump it and go to a different system (importing the setting).

Quote from: HinterWeltAs an aside, I think this speaks to my theory on systems having style elements that a group enjoy, are neutral on, and dislike. Even if you love a system, often, as written, you will find something you wish was different.

Hehehe...yeah..like this really great Iridium system and the fact that it uses roll under!

:haw:

But I'm still going to give it a try in a couple of weeks...permission was granted in exchange for a Father's Day trip to Games Plus...

I think with the people I've played with were willing to try new systems right up to the point were it didn't behave like D&D.  Warhammer was dropped when fighting proved more dangerous than D&D.  Palladium games could never gain much inertia because we rarely leveled.  Marvel Superheroes character creation was TOO different.  Go back to basic D&D, too simple.  The players always had an inherent expectation regarding how something would work.

I can't say I really share this experience, though I've seen plenty of efforts to weld a system we like onto a setting we like in order to divest ourselves of a system that sucked.  We usually embrace or discard systems as a whole, though, and not attempt to change one into another.  That doesn't preclude bolting amusing ideas from one onto another, of course.