Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2023, 01:06:58 PM
"The Illuminati don't exist anymore"

Well, that's exactly what a member of the Illuminati would say. 

Exactly.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 16, 2023, 01:06:58 PM
"The Illuminati don't exist anymore"

Well, that's exactly what a member of the Illuminati would say. 

I was thinking that the whole time.

"There was this group that wanted to rule the world, but exposure caused them to be attacked by the authorities. Then they ceased to exist, and we know that because we never heard from them ever again...except whackos saying they still existed, lol."

It's definitely one of those things where the proof the conspiracy doesn't exist, works equally well as evidence for the conspiracy.

Except if that was true, why would they have been hidden for almost 200 years only to allow their existence to be revealed by a letter to Playboy?

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 23, 2023, 11:21:17 AM
Except if that was true, why would they have been hidden for almost 200 years only to allow their existence to be revealed by a letter to Playboy?

A grand entrance with naked women is the dream of all closet megalomaniacs.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 23, 2023, 11:21:17 AM
Except if that was true, why would they have been hidden for almost 200 years only to allow their existence to be revealed by a letter to Playboy?

To get some of that sweet, sweet bunny hoo-hoo?

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 19, 2023, 12:00:25 PM

Quote from: Omega on August 18, 2023, 08:31:06 PM

Quote from: Grognard GM on August 18, 2023, 01:54:53 AM

Quote from: Cathode Ray on August 17, 2023, 10:40:49 PMSteve Jackson is turning into the Alex Jones of gaming.

"They're turning the Bullywugs GAY!"

And the Gnomes!

Gnomes were always gay. 5e just let them come out of the closet.

You bigots. 

We cant! The king lost his marbles and locked his husband in the bedroom. (5e Essentials. No. I am not joking.)

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 23, 2023, 01:59:08 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 23, 2023, 11:21:17 AM
Except if that was true, why would they have been hidden for almost 200 years only to allow their existence to be revealed by a letter to Playboy?

To get some of that sweet, sweet bunny hoo-hoo?

Speaking of. I wish I'd been there for the GenCon that was hosted at the same place Playboy was one year. 

There are of course real conspiracies, but the ones who take the form of "secret societies" are generally pretty lame ones (the only ones that had real political impact in the 20th C. West that I can think of being Skull & Bones and P2).

Most of the "conspiracies" are in plain sight, however. For example, the WEF.

So does Steve Jackson need the Clockwork Orange treatment? You know, strap him to a chair, staple his eyelids open, and make him watch Fiddler on the Roof over and over again to deprogram him of his anti-semitism.

We're talking Jewish Illuminati, and not gay Illuminati, right? I always get those two conspiracy theories mixed up.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 24, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
There are of course real conspiracies, but the ones who take the form of "secret societies" are generally pretty lame ones (the only ones that had real political impact in the 20th C. West that I can think of being Skull & Bones and P2).

Most of the "conspiracies" are in plain sight, however. For example, the WEF.

Hiding in plain sight works wonders when you have the media on your side or pocket or both. A shame if one were to create such a conspiracy for a game book it would be so on the nose it would read as pushing IRL politics into the game.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 24, 2023, 01:21:26 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 24, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
There are of course real conspiracies, but the ones who take the form of "secret societies" are generally pretty lame ones (the only ones that had real political impact in the 20th C. West that I can think of being Skull & Bones and P2).

Most of the "conspiracies" are in plain sight, however. For example, the WEF.

Hiding in plain sight works wonders when you have the media on your side or pocket or both. A shame if one were to create such a conspiracy for a game book it would be so on the nose it would read as pushing IRL politics into the game.

That's my problem with doing a Cyberpunk game. I wouldn't want to do one that recreates 80s tropes; I'd want one that reflects the near-future dystopia that has been presented to use in Current Year, but that would make it by far the most "political" RPG I've ever written.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 26, 2023, 12:10:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 24, 2023, 01:21:26 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 24, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
There are of course real conspiracies, but the ones who take the form of "secret societies" are generally pretty lame ones (the only ones that had real political impact in the 20th C. West that I can think of being Skull & Bones and P2).

Most of the "conspiracies" are in plain sight, however. For example, the WEF.

Hiding in plain sight works wonders when you have the media on your side or pocket or both. A shame if one were to create such a conspiracy for a game book it would be so on the nose it would read as pushing IRL politics into the game.

That's my problem with doing a Cyberpunk game. I wouldn't want to do one that recreates 80s tropes; I'd want one that reflects the near-future dystopia that has been presented to use in Current Year, but that would make it by far the most "political" RPG I've ever written.

You could do a post-apocalyptic game where there are remnants of Cyberpunk-esque tech, but the collapse of civilization has made it necessary for humans to return to basic common sense for the sake of survival.  It would be like Horizon Zero Dawn, but without the woke tropes.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 26, 2023, 12:10:17 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 24, 2023, 01:21:26 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 24, 2023, 09:58:09 AM
There are of course real conspiracies, but the ones who take the form of "secret societies" are generally pretty lame ones (the only ones that had real political impact in the 20th C. West that I can think of being Skull & Bones and P2).

Most of the "conspiracies" are in plain sight, however. For example, the WEF.

Hiding in plain sight works wonders when you have the media on your side or pocket or both. A shame if one were to create such a conspiracy for a game book it would be so on the nose it would read as pushing IRL politics into the game.

That's my problem with doing a Cyberpunk game. I wouldn't want to do one that recreates 80s tropes; I'd want one that reflects the near-future dystopia that has been presented to use in Current Year, but that would make it by far the most "political" RPG I've ever written.

Cyberpunk as a genre IS political, usually Leftism + Nihilism. Those are the 80s tropes you decry.

By making it farther in the future and extrapolating from the present it would have to be either Libertarian or Right wing. I would also eschew the Nihilism if possible.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2023, 12:42:32 PM
Cyberpunk as a genre IS political, usually Leftism + Nihilism. Those are the 80s tropes you decry.

By making it farther in the future and extrapolating from the present it would have to be either Libertarian or Right wing. I would also eschew the Nihilism if possible.

I disagree.  Cyberpunk is neither leftist nor nihilistic.  It would be far more accurate to saying that it's anarco-libertarian.  It breaks my heart that so many see punk and miss the message.

The -punk part of the name is the biggest clue as to what it's about.  Punk is a rejection of and the rebellion against the idea that submitting to authority is an inherently moral position and being intentionally oppositional to "because I said so."  (I think it's well worth pointing out that Johnny Rotten, a punk trailblazer, supported Donald Trump as POTUS.)  Indeed, true punk movements tend to be stronger and more confrontational when and where leftism is control.  There is a major punk movement in China right now where it's flatly illegal and the government is spending a lot of time and money trying to suppress it.

While superficially it's easy to see punks as being nihilistic, I don't think that's the case.  Nihilism it the belief that there is no real morality and life is meaningless. The real belief of punks is that it's on the individual to internally root their morality.  Is it moral because I'm told it's moral or is it moral because I know it's moral?  In my life, I have found that punks tend to be some of the most human and compassionate people.  I will say that this means that some punks take a left turn on being decent human beings and it is certainly not a philosophy for psychopaths.  There's a good number of examples of it going very badly.

While certainly not in the musical style of the 70s and 80s British punk music, Rich Men North of Richmond is very punk in it's message.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro&pp=ygUacmljaCBtZW4gbm9ydGggb2YgcmljaG1vbmQ%3D

Finally, if you go back and read the early Cyberpunk material and look at the interviews of the creators, you'll see that they didn't have left leaning views.  William Gibson, Mike Pondsmith, Bruce Bethke, and Philip K. Dick (precursor to cyberpunk) were and are not socialists or communists.  They all are people concerned about overbearing central authority. 

Quote from: BadApple on August 26, 2023, 01:27:02 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2023, 12:42:32 PM
Cyberpunk as a genre IS political, usually Leftism + Nihilism. Those are the 80s tropes you decry.

By making it farther in the future and extrapolating from the present it would have to be either Libertarian or Right wing. I would also eschew the Nihilism if possible.

I disagree.  Cyberpunk is neither leftist nor nihilistic.  It would be far more accurate to saying that it's anarco-libertarian.  It breaks my heart that so many see punk and miss the message.

The -punk part of the name is the biggest clue as to what it's about.  Punk is a rejection of and the rebellion against the idea that submitting to authority is an inherently moral position and being intentionally oppositional to "because I said so."  (I think it's well worth pointing out that Johnny Rotten, a punk trailblazer, supported Donald Trump as POTUS.)  Indeed, true punk movements tend to be stronger and more confrontational when and where leftism is control.  There is a major punk movement in China right now where it's flatly illegal and the government is spending a lot of time and money trying to suppress it.

While superficially it's easy to see punks as being nihilistic, I don't think that's the case.  Nihilism it the belief that there is no real morality and life is meaningless. The real belief of punks is that it's on the individual to internally root their morality.  Is it moral because I'm told it's moral or is it moral because I know it's moral?  In my life, I have found that punks tend to be some of the most human and compassionate people.  I will say that this means that some punks take a left turn on being decent human beings and it is certainly not a philosophy for psychopaths.  There's a good number of examples of it going very badly.

While certainly not in the musical style of the 70s and 80s British punk music, Rich Men North of Richmond is very punk in it's message.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSA-SY5Hro&pp=ygUacmljaCBtZW4gbm9ydGggb2YgcmljaG1vbmQ%3D

Finally, if you go back and read the early Cyberpunk material and look at the interviews of the creators, you'll see that they didn't have left leaning views.  William Gibson, Mike Pondsmith, Bruce Bethke, and Philip K. Dick (precursor to cyberpunk) were and are not socialists or communists.  They all are people concerned about overbearing central authority.

I agree overall, although I'm kind of divided on Mike Pondsmith.  Every statement I've read by him seems to be against authoritarianism in general, but I don't think he realizes the Marxist agenda of BLM.  He's voiced support for BLM.  Mike realizes police brutality affects all people, but BLM is race-obsessed and very much leftist.