Quote from: RPGPundit on August 30, 2023, 03:26:31 AM
Then that wouldn't be cyberpunk. cyberpunk isn't about cybernetics, or hackers, or guys in body armor with katanas and mohawks. It's about the dystopia that truly threatens the near-future; in the 1980s that was the bottomless greed of corporations and America's seeming inability to compete with foreign corps; in Present Year it is the agenda of the WEF that all our leaders seem ready to betray everything for.

Dias Ex Machina Publishes Ultramodern and their in house setting is NeuroSpasta.  It's very stylized but it very much feels like this type of Cyberpunk.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

Quote from: RPGPundit on August 30, 2023, 06:13:29 AM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 26, 2023, 04:17:35 PM
Who are the bad guys in a Cyberpunk game? Is it the government? or is it the corporations usurping the government?

To be an-cap it should portray the government as the bad guys, to be libertarian ditto.

Is it assumed that the PCs can change things for the better? No
Is it assumed the PCs are heroes or just a bunch of oportunistic asshole mercenaries selling their guns to the highest bidder?

Leftism + Nihilism

I rest my case.

In 1980s Cyberpunk the fear was corporate power run amok, where corporations would take the place of government, which would be reduced to a near-powerless figurehead.
Instead what happened was that the non-elected bureaucracies of government took over both the state and corporations.

So, people had no fear of the Soviets? Ot China? No fear of Communists? Any fear of the Soviets joining forces with the CCP and taking over the world were gone?

Fall of the Berlin Wall 9 November 1989

In all Cyberpunk IKO the villain is always Capitalism run ammok, there's NEVER a commie regime as the bad guy. The country that takes over the US is Japan, that was a capitalist country.

But you insist it's NOT leftist propaganda painting the government (when free of the corpos) as a force for good.

Believe what you want, I'm modifying MY Cyberpunk setting to eschew all the leftism + nihilism from it.

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

sigh...

One more time...

Cyberpunk is about looking 30-100 years into the future and looking at what form of authoritarian oppression might come about and using that as a backdrop and rebellion against it as a major theme.  True, a lot of them feature a series of giant Zaibatsu conglomerates being the oppressors but that doesn't make it a free market thing.  Many cyberpunk stories feature socialism like modern China as being the oppressive society.  Indeed, most cyberpunk stories feature a marriage of Powerful businessmen with government that leads to a series of seemingly benevolent socialist laws and bureaucracies being created that in reality lock people into a specific lifestyle and then their life blood slowly gets drained from them.  Some cyberpunk stories have the protagonists as doomed revolutionaries, some as simply those living outside the law trying to survive, and some as criminals that openly live in opposition to authority.

In China right now, The largest socialist country in the world, major companies exist.  Indeed, all of the major social structure elements of 80s Cyberpunk are present in modern China.  Many of the atrocities of modern China are being committed by the corporations and directly by agents of the state. 

Cyberpunk is all about being critical of popular trends and blind compliance.  The best are stories that directly challenge the notion of "for your own good." 

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

BAMF and BLM are both self professed communist organizations with ties to WEF.  There's a lot more if you just look.  Hell, just log onto the WEF website periodically to read the press releases and you'll understand clearly they intend for a socialist/communist world social structure.

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 11:53:07 AM
sigh...

One more time...

Cyberpunk is about looking 30-100 years into the future and looking at what form of authoritarian oppression might come about and using that as a backdrop and rebellion against it as a major theme.  True, a lot of them feature a series of giant Zaibatsu conglomerates being the oppressors but that doesn't make it a free market thing.  Many cyberpunk stories feature socialism like modern China as being the oppressive society.  Indeed, most cyberpunk stories feature a marriage of Powerful businessmen with government that leads to a series of seemingly benevolent socialist laws and bureaucracies being created that in reality lock people into a specific lifestyle and then their life blood slowly gets drained from them.  Some cyberpunk stories have the protagonists as doomed revolutionaries, some as simply those living outside the law trying to survive, and some as criminals that openly live in opposition to authority.

In China right now, The largest socialist country in the world, major companies exist.  Indeed, all of the major social structure elements of 80s Cyberpunk are present in modern China.  Many of the atrocities of modern China are being committed by the corporations and directly by agents of the state. 

Cyberpunk is all about being critical of popular trends and blind compliance.  The best are stories that directly challenge the notion of "for your own good."

in CHYNA! the corporations are agents of the state and not the other way around. "Do as you're told or we will jail/kill you or at the very least expell you and steal all your tech and you'll loose access to our market and slave labour."

For a leftist there's exactly ZERO difference between a Free Market and what we have today, much less what you see in any Cyberpunk setting. Remember they think Fascist Italy and Germany were capitalist.

The Corporations usurped the Government, meaning the Government is a force for good if free from those dirty capitalist pigs' hands.

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 11:56:23 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

BAMF and BLM are both self professed communist organizations with ties to WEF.  There's a lot more if you just look.  Hell, just log onto the WEF website periodically to read the press releases and you'll understand clearly they intend for a socialist/communist world social structure.

"You'll own nothing and be happy" Sounds like all commiescum wetdream.

So, extrapollating from that we end up with what? What would such a setting look like?

Already started working on that on my Guilded server BTW.

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2023, 12:10:51 PM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 11:56:23 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

BAMF and BLM are both self professed communist organizations with ties to WEF.  There's a lot more if you just look.  Hell, just log onto the WEF website periodically to read the press releases and you'll understand clearly they intend for a socialist/communist world social structure.

"You'll own nothing and be happy" Sounds like all commiescum wetdream.

So, extrapollating from that we end up with what? What would such a setting look like?

Already started working on that on my Guilded server BTW.

1984 - George Orwell

I'm convinced it's the best starting place for anyone wanting to do anything Cyberpunk.

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 12:49:29 PM

Quote from: GeekyBugle on August 30, 2023, 12:10:51 PM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 11:56:23 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

BAMF and BLM are both self professed communist organizations with ties to WEF.  There's a lot more if you just look.  Hell, just log onto the WEF website periodically to read the press releases and you'll understand clearly they intend for a socialist/communist world social structure.

"You'll own nothing and be happy" Sounds like all commiescum wetdream.

So, extrapollating from that we end up with what? What would such a setting look like?

Already started working on that on my Guilded server BTW.

1984 - George Orwell

I'm convinced it's the best starting place for anyone wanting to do anything Cyberpunk.

Have you read what I've written on Guilded? I think you'd like the old and also the new stuff.

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 11:56:23 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

BAMF and BLM are both self professed communist organizations with ties to WEF.  There's a lot more if you just look.  Hell, just log onto the WEF website periodically to read the press releases and you'll understand clearly they intend for a socialist/communist world social structure.

Most of this doesn't really contradict what I said, except for the excessive focus on "socialism/communism" as the apparent root of everything. China today hardly operates like a pure communist country, given it has large corporations merged with the state. Making it in some regards more similar to fascism than actual communism.

What's going on in the world today transcends Socialism vs Capitalism. Those are bunk, 20th century ideologies. Socialism lost and capitalism won (sorta), then became coopted by wealthy elites in the West, and holdovers of communism in the East, transforming it into a new monstrosity with sweeping tentacles all over the global economy. What rules the world today is different flavors of corporate fascism, with technocratic tendencies creeping in. Becoming more prevalent as technology continues to advance, scientism becomes normalized, and the public has come to accept the lab coat class as their new priestly class.

The WEF may use all the commie sounding words that they want. But they're ultimately still a clique of ultra wealthy globalist elites trying to consolidate their own power, while undermining that of nation states. And they believe in those words as much as they believe in the climate change hysteria, while they continue to buy beachfront property and fly around in private jets. It's just marketing to sell it to the idiot masses, and keep the politically initiated fighting about "It's Communism!" "No, it's State Capitalism!"

It's actually closer to Techno Fascism. But they're the ones in control. And you aren't. So it doesn't matter regardless.

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 11:32:35 AM

Quote from: BadApple on August 30, 2023, 10:15:37 AM

Quote from: VisionStorm on August 30, 2023, 09:45:37 AM
Except that the WEF is a private org, the political class is working on behalf of their donors and/or has been coopted by the WEF, and a lot of this is funded by people like George Soros and Bill Gates. So there's a still a strong element of ultra wealthy individuals and orgs run amok and taking over the government. Even if elements within the government are taking a more active role.

I think what he's referring to is the numerous connections to revolutionary communist groups, praise for communist governments, and financing for both government and corporate socialist and postmodern projects.

He mentioned unelected bureaucrats, not communists and whatnot. Communism is the bugbear of the "right" & co, but actual communist groups and peddlers of woke ideology are useful idiots propped up by the elite and the establishment to foment disorder and get the idiot masses fighting amongst themselves.

The people behind this want power and control for themselves. They aren't ideologically bound to communism. They just love the way China can get things done without the consent of the governed, and excert total dehumanizing control over them. The elite and WEF puppets cream themselves at the notion of having that kind of power. That's why they can't keep themselves from singing praises to China.

But this is ultimately about a tiny clique of ultra wealthy individual usurping control over the government and social institutions. And unelected bureaucrats and puppet politicians who conspire alongside them.

Agreed.  Race Marxism forms the basis of the Left's identity politics, and people like Herbert Marcuse wanted a Communist revolution to occur in the West. Marcuse understood that capitalism created prosperity and therefore could not produce discontent alone.  The only way to really develop a revolutionary class among capitalist society was to exaggerate and inflame resentment among minorities.  Back during his time, this was primarily racial tension and tension between the sexes.  Nowadays, it's a combination of race, sex, and various identities within the LGBT group.

Even though people like Soros are powerful ideologues of the left, most elites connected to the WEF aren't specifically leftist.  They just see the utility in keeping the working class divided and in the leftist tendency to demand more centralization of government power.  Ultimately, the most powerful people in society want a sort of neofeudalism to develop, where most people are dependent on government aid, but as a result, the government can control them in most facets (speech, assembly, movement, defense, etc.).

In short, the dystopia of Cyberpunk is here today, but without the cool tech.  Our government is run by unelected elites, while the supposedly elected don't serve their constituents faithfully, but they do serve their corporate donors.  Elections themselves are often questionable in how votes are counted as well.