Steve Jackson just re-aquired the rights to The Fantasy Trip

Larsdangly · January 02, 2018, 03:07:30 PM

Quote from: DavetheLost;1017407Like a number of people I know who make their living from creative work and IP he does take copyright and IP seriously. But that is to be expected. Pirate copies of his work are literally taking money out of his pocket.

When TFT was a dedades-long abandoned game without a hint of activity from an IP holder, I think it was reasonable for the small community of fans to cook up its own OSR-style knock offs and circulate pdfs of various things. But those days are over: the author holds the IP and has a company at his disposal and plans to put out products. That's a totally different situation. Why wouldn't he protect an active business?

TheShadow · January 05, 2018, 10:19:07 PM

I must admit it is pretty cool to see Steve Jackson over at the SJG forums publicly musing over some TFT design decisions he made 40 years ago and whether he might update them.

Voros · January 05, 2018, 11:20:03 PM

Quote from: Shawn Driscoll;1017029I thought SJ was just a nerd that didn't look his real age.

I heard he eats babies and conspires with storygamers to ruin Western Civ. Just reporting the rumour.

Omega · January 05, 2018, 11:31:41 PM

According to a few designers who looked it up. According to provision what Steve regained was the game rules. Not the art or expression of the rules in the original. And nothing that isnt his personal work it seems.

So a straight-up reprint isnt going to happen. But a new edition with a new format and art can.

Dumarest · January 06, 2018, 12:01:55 AM

Quote from: Omega;1017939According to a few designers who looked it up. According to provision what Steve regained was the game rules. Not the art or expression of the rules in the original. And nothing that isnt his personal work it seems.

So a straight-up reprint isnt going to happen. But a new edition with a new format and art can.

That can't be correct since you can't copyright game rules but can only copyright the expression thereof.

Kyle Aaron · January 06, 2018, 01:14:08 AM

Quote from: Larsdangly;1017420When TFT was a dedades-long abandoned game without a hint of activity from an IP holder, I think it was reasonable for the small community of fans to cook up its own OSR-style knock offs and circulate pdfs of various things. But those days are over: the author holds the IP and has a company at his disposal and plans to put out products. That's a totally different situation. Why wouldn't he protect an active business?

There's such a thing as gratitude. If not for those fanboys the game would be utterly forgotten, and the IP would have no value - like so many other rpgs from that time and beyond. Rein them in, but perhaps find a way to include their work in your future endeavours. So I hope they'll lean more towards inclusivity than C&D letters.

Omega · January 06, 2018, 02:48:57 AM

Quote from: Dumarest;1017947That can't be correct since you can't copyright game rules but can only copyright the expression thereof.

SJG thinks very differently on that matter.

As for TFTs case. Beats me. Im guessing its a factor of exactly what rights passed back to the designer. Such as if he wasnt the editor then the layouts of the pages are not his work and thus dont become his now.

Ravenswing · January 06, 2018, 06:46:15 AM

Quote from: Omega;1017967SJG thinks very differently on that matter.

And this is a very tricky bit of business, involving an obscure part of the federal code, dealing with a notoriously tricky field of law. More than in most areas of the law, copyright attorneys finance Caribbean vacations and new model Miatas on the backs of laymen who think they know a lot more than they do talking out of their asses. I'm willing to wager both that there isn't a single copyright attorney on this forum, and that SJ is paying a bloke who is to advise him.

DavetheLost · January 06, 2018, 07:58:34 AM

Concerning fan sites for TFT Steve has said he is in talks with some of the more popular fan sites about how they can work together. No details beyond that at this stage.

#213
Steve Jackson
President and EIC

Join Date: Jul 2004
Default Re: December 26, 2017: The Fantasy Trip Returns Home
When the initial "official" TFT website goes live, which won't be too long, it will include links to notable fan pages. Including Ty Beard's, which was mentioned recently - I reached out to Ty, heard back from him, and got a link to his archived site.

estar · January 06, 2018, 08:59:33 AM

Quote from: Dumarest;1017947That can't be correct since you can't copyright game rules but can only copyright the expression thereof.

The text word for word is the expression.

Saying distribute X points between Strength, Intelligence, and Dexterity in your own words is a game mechanic. Copy and paste the exact words out of Melee or Wizard is copyright infringement.

DavetheLost · January 06, 2018, 12:13:32 PM

Further a game of man to man combat on a heg grid called "Melee" would be a trade mark, regardless of game mechanics or wording.

Of importance is that Steve Jackson only has the rights to the parts of TFT that he personally wrote. Other artists and writers would have to go through the same legal process that SJ did to recover their rights, which may or may not be worth it to them.

Ravenswing · January 06, 2018, 02:20:37 PM

Quote from: DavetheLost;1018009Of importance is that Steve Jackson only has the rights to the parts of TFT that he personally wrote. Other artists and writers would have to go through the same legal process that SJ did to recover their rights, which may or may not be worth it to them.

Not necessarily. A collaborative work requires half the authors buying in to the effort; if you and I collaborated on a work in 1982, you could recover rights to the work without my input or worrying which of us wrote which bits (indeed, I didn't see anything in the code preventing you from doing so if I opposed it).

That being said, I suppose SJG could contact old TFT artists. Might not cost him any more to buy out their rights of recovery than it would to hire a new artist to do filler.

Gronan of Simmerya · January 06, 2018, 03:08:41 PM

Quote from: Ravenswing;1017982And this is a very tricky bit of business, involving an obscure part of the federal code, dealing with a notoriously tricky field of law. More than in most areas of the law, copyright attorneys finance Caribbean vacations and new model Miatas on the backs of laymen who think they know a lot more than they do talking out of their asses. I'm willing to wager both that there isn't a single copyright attorney on this forum, and that SJ is paying a bloke who is to advise him.

What? You mean random dink-yanking gamers on the Internet AREN'T the greatest source of knowledge about the intricacies of IP and copyright?

That's just crazy talk!

DavetheLost · January 06, 2018, 04:45:03 PM

Quote from: Ravenswing;1018024
That being said, I suppose SJG could contact old TFT artists. Might not cost him any more to buy out their rights of recovery than it would to hire a new artist to do filler.

Good news for TFT fans is that SJ is actually contacting old TFT artists. Presumably this is about doing new artwork for a new edition. It is quite possibly more cost effective to just commission new artwork than try to recover the rights to teh old, then negotiate a new contract for its use, etc.

From his remarks about the process it seems that there is also an element of time in the rights recovery process, time that might be better spent in other ways than waiting for the wheels of the courts to turn.

Just Another Snake Cult · January 06, 2018, 09:59:58 PM

Am I reading things correctly or do the various proclamations not say anything about SJ actually getting back the title "The Fantasy Trip".

Is the new version just gonna be called Melee/Wizard?